Seymour Staples

parker_knoll

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I'm aware some folks here have tried the Seymour Duncan staples.

Given how amazingly expensive they are and impossible to find used (it seems) can someone give me some user info?

I'm primarily after making my SF III-90 a bit brighter and hoping the staples with the magnetic polepieces will have more high frequency output than the current stock Antiquity P90s, one of which now has a dodgy connection in the coil anyway.

Can anyone confirm that?

Thanks all, and cheers because the bars just reopened here!)

Toby
 

AcornHouse

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I don’t have the Seymour staples, but I do have Lollar staples in my JA-90 Tele. They are more of a hi-fi P90; not overly bright or dark.
I don’t know how useful this will be, but I used it on this video, playing through a 5e3 tweed deluxe clone, so cleans are not really in the picture.

 

Walter Broes

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If you don't need the adjustable poles, you could try some P90 staple pickups from "Roswell pickups" - Chinese made pickups sold by Music Store in Germany.

You being in the UK, I'd perhaps ask Marc at Mojo pickups to cook something up - he's not expensive as boutique-ey pickup makers go, and makes great pickups.
 
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The Gibson staple that SD does a version of was itself modeled on a DeArmond Dynasonic -- so another thing to consider would be a TV Jones T'Armond, which is the most accurate current iteration of a Dyna. I think he does a soapbar mount version, which would the simplest drop-in for your guitar.

They're not cheap, but they're a lot less than the SD staples.

Another possibility would be a current Guild reissue Franz, like they're putting in the Korean X-175, etc. They should be brighter than a T'Armond.
 

parker_knoll

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The Gibson staple that SD does a version of was itself modeled on a DeArmond Dynasonic -- so another thing to consider would be a TV Jones T'Armond, which is the most accurate current iteration of a Dyna. I think he does a soapbar mount version, which would the simplest drop-in for your guitar.

They're not cheap, but they're a lot less than the SD staples.

Another possibility would be a current Guild reissue Franz, like they're putting in the Korean X-175, etc. They should be brighter than a T'Armond.

yes, you're right. I have tried the T-Armonds though and found them somewhat mellow compared to the originals or even the 90s reissues. My issue with the Franzes is... no bass :) One of the joys of the DeArmond is a "hollow mid", e.g. a Fender type EQ curve with low end and high end but a scooped mid. I'm greedy and I want more top end but no less bottom end. My compromise is I'll sacrifice the middle.
 
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yes, you're right. I have tried the T-Armonds though and found them somewhat mellow compared to the originals or even the 90s reissues. My issue with the Franzes is... no bass :) One of the joys of the DeArmond is a "hollow mid", e.g. a Fender type EQ curve with low end and high end but a scooped mid. I'm greedy and I want more top end but no less bottom end. My compromise is I'll sacrifice the middle.

Ah, gotcha. I suppose another alternative would be a lower wind Lollar P90, which tend to be brighter and more scooped than something like the Antiquities. You've got lots of options that are all in the ballpark, but they may only be slightly different from what you've already got.
 
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Another thought: what bridge are you using on it? Didn't you get this with a tune-a-matic installed? If you haven't tried it, swapping back to an aluminum Bigsby bridge will be a LOT more scooped and brighter. Something like a steel Tru-Arc would be in between.
 

parker_knoll

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Another thought: what bridge are you using on it? Didn't you get this with a tune-a-matic installed? If you haven't tried it, swapping back to an aluminum Bigsby bridge will be a LOT more scooped and brighter. Something like a steel Tru-Arc would be in between.

Actually i did the opposite. I got this with the original aluminium Bigsby but put in a Schaller TOM as I found it brighter than the Bigsby. In fact contrary to you, I found the Bigsby bridges fairly mellow and the steel TOM a fair bit brighter. I'm not disagreeing with you on purpose, just that was my experience :)

Which reminds me, I did a big test on bridges recently with a spectroscope and promised to publish the results here and haven't got round to it yet. In brief, the results were: brightest bridge was a steel Gretsch Rockin Bar, next were the various TOMS, second dullest was the Bigsby (no difference in base material, wooden or aluminium in my experiment), and dullest was the all wooden bridge, as may be expected. I didn't test a Tru Arc.

I think that steel is the key component for a zingy treble response here.
 

Walter Broes

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Interesting!! Gotta say though, unless the TOM you tested was a custom item - you didn't test any steel bridges : tune-a-matics by most makers have a cast zinc-like-substance body and brass saddles. Tru-Arc does a stainless rocking bar bridge, but the stock Gretsch Item is nickel plated brass.
Which is kind of in line with my findings : the bridges with the most real treble content regardless of other frequencies or emphasis were brass or had brass saddles. I've had two steel Tru-Arcs, and surprisingly, they're less bright than you'd think - they're extremely balanced across the guitar's frequency range with no real emphasis on any particular side. The brass bridges I've tried had more agressive treble.

Like Smiert, I hear the Bigsby bridges as trebly too, but maybe more as "thin", because they seem to take the low end out of the wound strings more than anything else, and they're not big on sustain so the treble strings can seem plinky.

With bridges and pickups, I think it's like a lot of music/EQ related things : emphasis on certain frequencies can make it seem as if the other ones aren't there.

Funny too how you describe Franz pickups as having "no bass" - very well possible compared to other pickups, and the emphasis with them seems to be midrange and treble (in guitar speak - in the bigger scheme of things electric guitar is really almost all midrange)
But my own experience with Franzes is on a giant X175, and the neck pickup on that guitar certainly doesn't lack bass, quite the opposite actually. And then my DeArmonds are on an old Starfire, small, thin guitar in comparison, and predictably, it has less low end than the X175. But that probably has more to do with the guitars than with the pickups.

But back to your current situation : I think a different set of regular P90's might very well do the trick. I have a very (very!) nice Gibson ES175 copy that has a pair of Duncan Antiquities on it. And while they sound good, and particularly the neck pickup on that guitar does the archtypal smoky Gibson archtop tone very well, I'm a little frustrated with them as well. They seem to have so much emphasis on the midrange that the treble frequencies suffer. I've already replaced the magnets with Alnico V, and that helped a little bit, but they're still not lively and twangy enough for me. I keep telling myself "well, you have the Guilds and the telecasters for twang, you got this guitar bc you wanted a Gibson", but then reading your experience with the Duncans gets me to think I might like a different pickup in that guitar more.

I have a set of Lollars in a tele, and even realising the guitars don't compare at all, the lollars (their 50's wind) do seem livelier and brighter, and less plump and woody-all midrange.

I went ahead and ordered one of those cheap staple knockoffs in Germany for the neck position of the ES175 copy, it should be here next week, I'll let you know how I get on with it!
 
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Definitely interesting!

"Thin" matches my experience with aluminum Bigsby bridges, too -- maybe an aggressive low-mid scoop. I've got a Bigsby aluminum, Tru-Arcs in brass, copper, and steel, and a brass Compton. A few months ago I was playing around with my 175, and the aluminum, in particular, just drains the fat right out -- on that guitar, I think I like a brass Tru-Arc best.

I've got a copper Tru-Arc on my big Guild now, and it's a pretty good match. I can't exactly say that it's appreciably different, though.
 

Walter Broes

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OK....the short version...Yes, I think you might really like staple pickups. I'm really impressed with this cheapo even - nothing cheap about the sound. Think P90, as loud, hits the amp as hard, definitely same ballpark, but more even, more clarity, more real highs.
 

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parker_knoll

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Sorry, i got pulled away by real life again!

Walter you are absolutely right, the TOMs are of course not steel, but chrome plated something or other, probably zinc alloy as you say with brass saddles. Thanks for clearing up about the bar bridge - it was definitely a stock Gretsch model - but the radius was wild, something like 20" which made it a bit far off what my guitar needs.

I was being a little facetiously reductive when I said the Franzes had no bass, but definitely there is less emphasis there when compared to say DeArmonds or traditional P90s.

I totally agree with your take on Antiquities. What cheap knock off staples did you get? There's a few in the UK as well.
 

Coop47

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I appear to be reaching an age where my frame of reference is becoming less and less relevant. I read the thread title and thought, "Mavis, Pops...Was there a Seymour too?"
 

marty grass

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I have a solid body with SD Staples at the neck and a SD standard wind P-90 at the bridge. It's a Heritage redo of a 1954 LP Custom.

The tonal spectrum seems fuller with the Staples and has more potential tonal characteristics with magnet adjustment. IMO it is the best single coil neck pickup for jazz. The Dynasonic and the Dearmond 1100 are very different but also sweet. The P-92 is superb for a humbucker slot.

Gibson was probably right to not waste money on the Staples pickup at the bridge position, which by nature is compressed.

 

Walter Broes

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What cheap knock off staples did you get? There's a few in the UK as well.
brand is "Roswell", they're made in Korea or China, not sure. Paid 55 Euros! that neck pickup is wound a hair hotter than I'd like, but nothing crazy either. I might eventually have it rewound by a buddy, can't really lose for what I paid, right?
 

parker_knoll

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As an update that might be helpful to others, I put on some steel strings and also made a little EQ notch at 300Hz which is sounding good to me. So it wasn't a case of adding highs so much as reducing mids at a particular frequency. I'm aware not everyone runs their guitar through a mixer (!) but plenty of EQ pedals out there which are cheaper and less hassle than a pickup swap.
 
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