Setting up a vintage (1970) 'Harp' Guild Starfire II bridge / wiring diagram

[philday]

Dear all,

I've searched on this fine forum, but unfortunately couldn't find an answer I understand, so am hoping that you'll use small words so I can learn something I've previously owned various basses over the years - mostly Yamahas and a rather nice Clement fretless. All have had a more easy to understand bridge with individual metal saddles that can be adjusted for length and height.

I wish to lower the action of the bridge on my recently received Starfire II. I see that I can turn the 2 small adjust screws just behind the saddles which currently lift the front of the bridge plate away from the body.

However, do the same rules apply as for the Gibson 3-point bridge; namely that you should ensure the back of the bridge is lower than the front, so string tension pulls it against the body rather than pulling away? Or does this increase the angle that the strings pass over the bridge saddles (is this break angle?) and if so, is this a bad thing?

From an aesthetic point of view I can see the appeal in trying to keep the plate level with the body, but wondered if there was a 'golden rule' to not messing up a harp bridge that I should know about.

In other news, mine has the Guild humbuckers (and I have seen all the comments from people saying they prefer the single-coil BiSonics!). The 'deep/hard' switch only appears to make a minor difference when both pickups are engaged, and appears to cut the neck pickup entirely when just this pickup is selected. Is there a reliable source for a wiring diagram for these old Starfires? I am rather enjoying the thunderous extreme of the neck pickup though - lots of fat bottom end. Very different to any other bass I've owned.

Thanks for any help or advice you can offer.

I attach the obligatory photo - this was taken by the seller who clearly had a good eye for a photo!

Cheers,
Phil

 

[mellowgerman]

Welcome Philday and very nice specimen you have there. My #1 is also a 1970 Starfire bass, though it has been modified with two different flavors of Bisonic-family pickups and custom electronics.

To your question though, I would recommend maintaining some break-angle over the saddles. It doesn't have to be extreme, but I wouldn't want the bridge to be set flat or parallel to the body. You definitely do not want the back end to be higher than the front. My starting point would be to make sure the two big mounting screws in the very back are tightened down toward the body, but just enough to allow some flex or movement on top of the two rubber or felt grommets that should be between the bright and the body there. This is intended to be the main anchor point of the bridge, but loosely enough that up and down adjustment is possible in the front, via the two height adjusting screws behind the saddles. I hope that makes sense! If you have a close-up shot from the side of the bridge, showing the angle as it currently is, it would be easier to give you some pointers.

These harp bridges are a point of much contention. Some hate them, some like them, some love them. I happen to be among the love-them camp. I think that once you get the hang of adjusting them, they become easy to set and are rock solid in my experience, in that they don't slip or change over time. Of course the unique design, with the rosewood saddles, also contributes to the tone. Some people like to swap out the saddles for custom brass ones and others prefer the 90's version of the bridge which is actually more similar to a Fender Mustang bridge in spacing and functionality, but the base plate maintains the harp aesthetic.

 

[philday]

Thanks very much @mellowgerman - that does indeed make sense. I shall ensure the back of the bridge is lower than the front, and will start with your helpful suggestions of tightening down to just allow slight movement (after completely loosening the strings of course) before then making any action changes.

I'm planning to keep the harp bridge - part of the appeal for me in having an old instrument is in learning how to use the different features. Plus I like the looks

Then again, I'm not much of a bass player - others who play 300 notes a bar might need to upgrade the bridge Alas, neither my brain or my fingers work that fast.

 

[mellowgerman]

Glad to hear you don't hate the harp
You should be able to get just as easy & breezy action with it as with any other bass. Once you have the tilt adjusted and optimized, a little bit of filing of individual saddles can provide some fine-tuning.
For reference, here's a side view of mine:

 

[fronobulax]

You got a partial answer to your side comment elsewhere, but @mellowgerman is one of the people I trust to correct me, even if he advocates filing saddles when needed.

Your bass should be 1971-1977 and for that time period it is pretty safe to assume the wiring of a JS II bass and a Starfire II bass were similar, if not identical. The deep/hard switch only applies to the neck PU. My experience is that it is a dramatic change but I also acknowledge that the same PU does sound different in a solid vs. hollow body so that might explain things.

If the only the neck PU is selected then the deep/hard switch makes a dramatic difference.

If both PU are selected the volume controls control the mix/balance and the contribution, or lack thereof, of the switch depends upon the PU balance.

If the bridge PU only is selected then the deep/hard is not in the circuit and it shouldn't make a difference on a working bass with the factory wiring

Here are two different schematics drawn from my JS II.

 

[philday]

Many thanks @fronobulax - the deep/hard switch currently doesn't work when just the neck pickup is soloed - it just cuts the pickup entirely in one position.

I also have a strange fault in that the tone for the bridge pickup also rolls off a lot of the volume - so there appears to be some wiring issues in the bass.

However, I'm intending to play it for a few weeks to get to know it before getting any changes done - but do very much appreciate the wiring schematics - these will be helpful for future troubleshooting.

 

[lungimsam]

First off: It isn't you. It is the bridge.

The two big screws behind the saddles raises and lowers the saddle end of the bridge plate. The two big screws at the string ball-ends end of the bridge plate lower and raise the ball-ends end of the plate. You have to see-saw the bridge plate back and forth between the two screws by the saddles and the two screws at the ball-end to finally get the height and angle you want.
Why? Because if you tighten the two screws at the ball-ends too much you will restrict movement of the saddle ends bridge plate adjuster screws. That's why you have to see-saw it til you get it where you want it.
These are great sounding and looking bridges but the adjustment is overly fussy.
Plus the intonation travel can be too short for some.
Plus the saddle paddle slots, when they get worn in can cause the saddles to slide on the surface, dragging the strings away from proper pole piece alignment.
Plus, you cannot get straight string alignment from ball ends to saddles to pickup pole pieces. Something will have to be made crooked to get it where you want it. When you get the strings aligned straight over the pole pieces, the strings will be crooked from saddle to ball end. No big deal, just makes you wonder why Guild didn't work this out 60 years ago when they had the chance.
Time for a modern bridge I say.
I am not saying these things to complain about the bridge, but, just to let you know it isn't you; it's the bridge. You will wonder. So I say this ahead of time. It is a fantastic bridge once it is set though!

 

[fronobulax]

Many thanks @fronobulax - the deep/hard switch currently doesn't work when just the neck pickup is soloed - it just cuts the pickup entirely in one position.

My bass has never done that and if it started I would start checking the wiring. My ability to analyze an analog circuit is fraught with error but if one position on the toggle results in no output I would look for a loose or unconnected wire at the toggle.

I also have a strange fault in that the tone for the bridge pickup also rolls off a lot of the volume - so there appears to be some wiring issues in the bass.

That is beyond my ability to guess but capacitors have been known to fail so...

 

[lungimsam]

As long as the bass structural integrity is intact, you are good!
The electronics can be easy fixed/replaced by a competent tech. Nothing to worry about!