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The Guilds of Grot
Enlightened Member
1.) You can use roundwounds but be prepared to rip up your fretboard! Flat wounds are much friendlier to the fretboard with their smooth surface.
2.) Not an expert in any way but I believe you play on the dots. When I got my fretless I was also baffled by this. Then I lined up my fretted model nut to nut and bridge to bridge and realized the dots on the fretless were between the frets!
3.) As low as you want to go with out the strings dying out on the fretboard.
4.) Learn to listen so you can play in tune!
These were the two I compared:
2.) Not an expert in any way but I believe you play on the dots. When I got my fretless I was also baffled by this. Then I lined up my fretted model nut to nut and bridge to bridge and realized the dots on the fretless were between the frets!
3.) As low as you want to go with out the strings dying out on the fretboard.
4.) Learn to listen so you can play in tune!
These were the two I compared:
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Nuuska
Enlightened Member
Hello
Me not being a bass player - but having wonderful fretless GUILD acoustic B30 . . .
1 - flatwounds - for reason Grot said - there are even nylon flatwound and other neat coatings to explore.
2 - at the dots - as experienced player you soon learn - I often start slightly closer to headstock and glide on spot - but not from too far - it gets old quickly.
3 - the lower the action the more "meaowing" - as I would describe it - depends a lot on how hard your right hand touch is
4 - go for it and enjoy.
Those actually playing bass as their main instrument will tell you more and rationalize better.
Me not being a bass player - but having wonderful fretless GUILD acoustic B30 . . .
1 - flatwounds - for reason Grot said - there are even nylon flatwound and other neat coatings to explore.
2 - at the dots - as experienced player you soon learn - I often start slightly closer to headstock and glide on spot - but not from too far - it gets old quickly.
3 - the lower the action the more "meaowing" - as I would describe it - depends a lot on how hard your right hand touch is
4 - go for it and enjoy.
Those actually playing bass as their main instrument will tell you more and rationalize better.
zulu
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Mine is a conversion, so, toward the bridge side of the dots. It would depend whether the dots are placed between the frets or on the frets. The way to know for sure is to play through a tuner...
zulu
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Your finger needs to go where the fret would be, not in between
RVBASS
Member
I play fretless a lot, so my thoughts:
1. flatwounds for less wear on the board, they feel great when playing, and can be EQed to sound like an upright
2. depends on where the dots are located. Between the frets play after the dot, on the fret play on the dot. Practice with a tuner so that you learn the proper location of the note and learn to hear what the correct note sounds like, also learn what the proper finger spread feels like so your fingers become naturally spaced for the note locations in position
3. personal preference
4. once you learn to love playing fretless it will be hard to put down
1. flatwounds for less wear on the board, they feel great when playing, and can be EQed to sound like an upright
2. depends on where the dots are located. Between the frets play after the dot, on the fret play on the dot. Practice with a tuner so that you learn the proper location of the note and learn to hear what the correct note sounds like, also learn what the proper finger spread feels like so your fingers become naturally spaced for the note locations in position
3. personal preference
4. once you learn to love playing fretless it will be hard to put down
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hieronymous
Member
1.) As a "general rule", should I be using flatwounds or roundwounds...?
(Bonus info: I bought it strung with roundwounds and I have never strung flats ony any of my basses in 35 years and I play Heavy Metal - with a pick. With this fretless, I intend to use only my fingers...)
2.) The bass has no fret markers but it does have position dots on the top edge of the fretboard...As a "general rule", where am I placing my fingertips if I am trying to mirror playing a fretted bass - headstock side of the dot, on the dot or bridge side of the dot...?
3.) "General rule" string height...? Buzzing frets don't seem to be an issue with this bass...
4.) Any Pro Tips, sage advice or warnings for this fretless n00b headbanger...?
I Thank any and all who choose to participate in this thread in advance...
1. For me, I'll always use flatwounds on my fretlesses (fretlessi?) To me that was common knowledge, but recently I have seen people assert that roundwounds are fine. One voice I respect in that department is Tony Franklin, who played in The Firm with Jimmy Page & Paul Rogers and also in Blue Murder with Carmine Appice & Jon Sykes. Oh yeah, he's in a cool performance with Kate Bush & David Gilmour too! Anyway, rounds might be fine, especially on a cheap bass - just don't do blues guitar up-n-down vibrato, only rock back and forth from bridge to nut!
2. Make sure the dots are where the fret would be. You can try it with the 12th fret. My first fretless had dots where they should be on a fretted and no lines - turned me off to fretless for years!
That's all I got for now - give it a try and have fun! I guess it's a good thing to try and be honest with yourself as to how good your intonation is, but that's part of the work that needs to be done. Like RVBASS I have found myself somewhat addictive for its expressive possibilities, but it does take some work.
Happy Face
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There's something cool about the sound of a fretless. You hear them on many recordings with some of the best hired gun studio bass players, like our own Mgod here.
One reason is that some lazy sound engineers like that there is no annoying fret buzz and clatter
to deal with. (Other, old timers welcome it.)
Anyway, I tried using a beautiful Steinberger fretless XL bass. I figured that since I had learned to play viola in high school I cd get the knack of it.
I sorta did. But I never to the point where I did not need to look down at the fret dots, now and then.
No big deal if I was only playing a bass part, but it was really tough on songs where I sang harmonies or lead. To the point where the band leader asked me not to use it live.
Traded it for a fretted version + cash.
One reason is that some lazy sound engineers like that there is no annoying fret buzz and clatter
to deal with. (Other, old timers welcome it.)
Anyway, I tried using a beautiful Steinberger fretless XL bass. I figured that since I had learned to play viola in high school I cd get the knack of it.
I sorta did. But I never to the point where I did not need to look down at the fret dots, now and then.
No big deal if I was only playing a bass part, but it was really tough on songs where I sang harmonies or lead. To the point where the band leader asked me not to use it live.
Traded it for a fretted version + cash.
krysh
Guildarist in the mod squad
RVBASS
Member
Good Morning and Thanks so much for all your quick and invalueable responses so far...!!!
Flatwound strings it is then - maybe also a set of the nylons...
*MORNING SHOCK* - THE PRICES OF FLATWOUND STRINGS - HFS...!!!
For a little less expensive flatwounds, I like Labella low tension flats. As Krysh noted flatwounds last a long time, so you could say that the price averages out over time.
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I want to TOTALLY disagree with everybody here. Roundwound strings, that's the thing. I have 3 fretlesses, all fairly unique, and all roundwound. My oldest I've had since I was 17, its my profile pic. It's a completely hollow M-85, currently it appears to have no pickups, once belonged to Uncle Phil, and RT replaced the electronics with his piezo setup in around '89-90. His nylon-core strings, essentially huge classical guitar strings, are perfect on it. They're Thomastiks. You can hear it all over Crow's Tuesday Night Music Club, I play it on "I Was Watching You" on Rosanne Cash's Black Cadillac and I played on the Tonight Show with her.
For a bit over 40 years I've owned the first unlined Steinberger made, #122, and have always used roundwounds on it. Initially Superwound, and in '87, RT sent me a set of La Bella rounds strings that he had treated cryogenically, with the instructions "Put em on, see how long they last!" and they still sound great at 35. You can hear it on Linda Perry's "In My Dreams". They were about 8 years old when we recorded that.
I have a Modulus P-bass that has the original strings on it, serial # 72 with a Dark Star pickup, no idea what they are but round. Sounds great.
You don't HAVE to try to play like Jaco Pastorius.
For a bit over 40 years I've owned the first unlined Steinberger made, #122, and have always used roundwounds on it. Initially Superwound, and in '87, RT sent me a set of La Bella rounds strings that he had treated cryogenically, with the instructions "Put em on, see how long they last!" and they still sound great at 35. You can hear it on Linda Perry's "In My Dreams". They were about 8 years old when we recorded that.
I have a Modulus P-bass that has the original strings on it, serial # 72 with a Dark Star pickup, no idea what they are but round. Sounds great.
You don't HAVE to try to play like Jaco Pastorius.
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Happy Face
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"You don't HAVE to try to play like Jaco Pastorius."
No need. He often said that he tried to play like me.
No need. He often said that he tried to play like me.
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RVBASS
Member
I have the Thomastik Acousticores on my Turner Renaissance Bass, they are pretty cool strings.
PS - I used to use a set called Guild Multicore flatwounds on the Lesh M-85 fretless. I still have them because they're made from unobtanium.
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mellowgerman
Senior Member
I have a fretless P bass that has been modified with a MusicMan style humbucker and active 3-band EQ. I absolutely love Ernie Ball Cobalt flatwounds on that one, along with foam underneath the strings, at the bridge. Can get very uprighty, which is how I mostly play it. If I take the foam out though and adjust the EQ a bit, I can get really bright, edgy sounds too.
I recommend checking out the relatively cheap EB Cobalt flats! They have what I would call medium tension, but due to their construction, they're also super floppy/supple, so when playing, they actually feel much lighter in tension than they actually are. Also, the cobalt steel generates a ton of harmonic overtone content, so plenty of high-mids, and treble, along with the typical low-mid flatwound punch. I also have them on my fretted Alembic Spoiler and love them on there. I sure wish they offered a medium scale or short scale set, so I could try them on my Starfires and Gibson EB-0.
I recommend checking out the relatively cheap EB Cobalt flats! They have what I would call medium tension, but due to their construction, they're also super floppy/supple, so when playing, they actually feel much lighter in tension than they actually are. Also, the cobalt steel generates a ton of harmonic overtone content, so plenty of high-mids, and treble, along with the typical low-mid flatwound punch. I also have them on my fretted Alembic Spoiler and love them on there. I sure wish they offered a medium scale or short scale set, so I could try them on my Starfires and Gibson EB-0.
The Guilds of Grot
Enlightened Member
So I'm guessing there's no need to respond to this?Those EB Cobalts are exactly what I ordered from Thomann yesterday...
I settled on those because they came in the 45-65-85-105 gauges I normally use with my frettet basses...I was sorely tempted to go for the Steve Harris Signature flats but he uses slightly different gauges so I held back this time...
Which brings up the next question - is it correct to assume that flats should be the same gauges as the rounds one uses or should I go one up/down...?
I'm a little late to the party, and it's impossible to top @mgod's post here, but after having a set of rounds on my fretless Pilot when I got it from @bassmyf, I switched to a set of these after the rounds appeared to be digging into the fingerboard very slightly.
I've been very pleased with the way they sound on the Pilot, as they seem to be just a little brighter than the average flat wound string.
I've been very pleased with the way they sound on the Pilot, as they seem to be just a little brighter than the average flat wound string.
mellowgerman
Senior Member
Those EB Cobalts are exactly what I ordered from Thomann yesterday...
I settled on those because they came in the 45-65-85-105 gauges I normally use with my frettet basses...I was sorely tempted to go for the Steve Harris Signature flats but he uses slightly different gauges so I held back this time...
Which brings up the next question - is it correct to assume that flats should be the same gauges as the rounds one uses or should I go one up/down...?
No need to worry too much about gauges, since the composition and assembly methods of a string can determine tension & stiffness just as much as the actual measured diameter. The only reason I'd say it might be a good idea to stick with the same gauges is that the nut on your bass already fits them