Replacement Tuners - 12 string

[aamapes]

Some of the tuner knobs on my ‘68 F-212 are really hard to turn (yes, I’ve lubed them). I’m looking for a drop-in set of replacement tuners and I’m hoping some of you have some good advice. The only thing I’ve found that seem to match are the Golden Age Restoration tuners from StewMac. They come only in chrome with black knobs.

Does anyone have experience with this question?

 

[awagner]

I did the same research and I believe those are the best high quality 6-on-a-plate replacement tuners for that guitar. I am about to drop the same set on my Starfire XII.

 

[HeyMikey]

However, this is this comment on them…


Nice keys
By RestoGuitar from Cincinnati, Ohio USA Verified buyer
02/16/2014
But they don't have the right spacing for a Guild 12 string. Had to hack a repair on the stock keys on the Guild. Would be nice to have a quality replacement for them.

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

If these are the same open back tuners as on the 67 F212 I had, they have the screws on the back to adjust the tuner action.
Handy...you did get to adjust them a lot though...used to carry a philips screwdriver with me.

 

[awagner]

If these are the same open back tuners as on the 67 F212 I had, they have the screws on the back to adjust the tuner action.
Handy...you did get to adjust them a lot though...used to carry a philips screwdriver with me.

These are the ones being discussed:

Golden Age Restoration Tuners for 12-String Solid Peghead Guitar - StewMac

6-left/6-right plate-style tuners with a great vintage look.

www.stewmac.com

 

[Christopher Cozad]

Some of the tuner knobs on my ‘68 F-212 are really hard to turn (yes, I’ve lubed them). I’m looking for a drop-in set of replacement tuners and I’m hoping some of you have some good advice. The only thing I’ve found that seem to match are the Golden Age Restoration tuners from StewMac. They come only in chrome with black knobs.

Does anyone have experience with this question?

Check your own guitar's measurements, but all my Guild 12 strings from the '70s forward feature a hole-to-hole spacing of 63/64 of an inch (0.986", 25mm). They are just slightly under 1 inch, center-to-center. And they require 5/16" bushings (0.315", 8mm).

The StewMac version features posts that are too close together (59/64", 0.922", 23.4mm) which results in one end of the plate having bushings that will not seat into the pre-drilled holes on your headstock without modification. Unfortunately, their bushings are also too small a diameter.

For 6-on-a-plate inline tuners, I believe you can use several versions from China on ebay (such as the Metallor 12 String tuners), as the spacing of the posts is correct (25mm). I cannot attest to whether the diameter of the bushings will seat properly.

 

[Nuuska]

Harley Benton Parts Tuners 12-String

12-String Machine Heads 6 Left / 6 right tuners on plate for 12-string acoustic guitar, Open design, Peg spacing 25 mm, Bushings: 7.5 mm diameter, 2x Row of 6 machine heads, nickel, 12x Bushings, Mounting screws

www.thomann.de

These chinese tuners - available in Germany - seem to have spacing that fits my F-212-CSB.
Also mounting screw holes seem to fit.
No info about shaft & bushing size

So that makes me think something equal should easily be found in US

 

[SFIV1967]

No info about shaft & bushing size

They say "Bushings: 7.5 mm diameter". So maybe the bushings would be a little bit too thin in diameter, but maybe the replacement shafts would fit in the original bushings.

Those are the original Japanese tuners on the F-212:



Göldo in Germany has those, but they look odd (distance between knob and baseplate is too long):

göldo 12-String Tuners / 6+6

göldo 12-String Tuners / 6+6 Each side has 6 open tuners on a nicely decorated metal plate. For 12-string guitars Baseplate Length: 157mm Post…

www.goeldo.de

WD Music has those and they look a lot like the Thomann Harley Benton version:

WD 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Chrome With Plated Buttons

WD® 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Chrome With Plated ButtonsNice all chrome 12 string open back (steel) tuning machines plate mounted 6 per side. Set includes both right and left side tuning machines for 12 string guitar, all mounting screws included.

www.wdmusic.com

Or with round knobs even better looking:

WD 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Chrome With Round Plated Buttons

WD® 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Chrome With Round Plated ButtonsAttractive 12 string (steel) six on a plate tuning machines. Chrome with chrome buttons and brass ring gears.

www.wdmusic.com

WD 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Chrome With ... | eBay

WD® 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Chrome With Round Plated ButtonsAttractive 12 string (steel) six on a plate tuning machines. Chrome with chrome buttons and brass ring gears.

www.ebay.com

WD 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Chrome With Round Plated Buttons

WD® 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Chrome With Round Plated Buttons Attractive 12 string (steel) six on a plate tuning machines. Chrome with chrome buttons and brass ring gears.

www.capitalmusicgear.com

Ralf

 

[Nuuska]

Right you are - the size is in the text - I was only looking at that drawing.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

I have ordered a set of both the Harley Benton (thanks, Nuuska) and WD tuners (thanks, Ralf). I will test fit them on a variety of Guild 12 string headstocks and get back with you all...

Investigator Ralf, is there any possibility of your tracking down the equivalent of the WD tuners, but plated gold (versus chrome)? ;~}

 

[SFIV1967]

Investigator Ralf, is there any possibility of your tracking down the equivalent of the WD tuners, but plated gold (versus chrome)? ;~}

Not the same but also 1" spacing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/164990175668
That's the store in UK selling them:

12 String Guitar Machine heads Gold Buttons Ferrules Solid Headstock Tuners

12 STRING ELECTRIC GUITAR MACHINE HEADS GOLD SQUARE

www.janika.co.uk

Ralf

 

[Christopher Cozad]

Thank you, Ralf.

 

[SFIV1967]

Actually WD Music has those:

WD 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Gold With Pearl Plastic Buttons

WD® 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Gold With Pearl Plastic ButtonsAttractive 12 string (steel) six on a plate tuning machines. Gold with antique white Pearl Plastic buttons and brass ring gears. Replacement for 12 string guitars.

www.wdmusic.com

And those:

WD 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Gold With Black Plastic Buttons

WD® 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Gold With Black Plastic ButtonsAttractive 12 string (steel) six on a plate tuning machines. Gold with antique white Black Plastic buttons and brass ring gears. Replacement for 12 string guitars.

www.wdmusic.com

And local:

WD 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Gold With Black Plastic Buttons | Reverb

WD 12 String 6-On-A-Plate Open Back Steel String Tuning Machines Gold With Black Plastic Buttons Attractive 12 string (steel) six on a plate tuning machines. Gold with antique white Black Plastic buttons and brass ring gears. Replacement for 12 string guitars. [SKU:WD1275]1 inch center to center...

reverb.com

The might have a version with golden knobs as well.

Ralf

 

[Christopher Cozad]

Thanks again, Ralf. I am checking with WD...

 

[awagner]

Took my Starfire XII to Tom Crandall and he installed the Golden Era tuners while I waited. The spacing was perfect, as were all but 2 of the screw holes, which he filled.

Also, he left the original stock bushings intact.

I believe the stock tuners on the Starfire XII are the same as on my F312, and probably the OPs F212.

Will post pictures later.

 

[awagner]

The tuners on my F312 and Starfire XII are virtually identical. They are the same length. The apparent difference is due to the angle of the headstock.




Here’s the Starfire with the new tuners.





Bottom line is they work great, which is what matters the most. Of course I will keep the originals.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

UPDATE: I received the Harley Benton (HB) 6-on-a-plate tuners from Thomann GmbH today (brass gears/larger buttons, in the photos, below). The plate is nicely etched in an attractive pattern. The gears are brass, and the plate, posts, bushings and screws appear to be bright zinc-plated.

The posts nearly center on the three (3) Guild 12 string headstocks I tested (including a 1975 F-212). To be fair, the original tuners do NOT center perfectly, either.

The screw holes on the plate of the HB tuners are spaced identical to the original screw holes on the back of the headstock, however, to align the posts as close to perfectly centered as possible in the existing post holes the existing screw holes would need to be filled and re-drilled, as the entire set of holes on the tuners are shifted toward the end of the headstock by approximately 3/32" (2.5mm).

The bushings are loose in the holes and would either need to be replaced (using either the originals or any number of replacements) or glued in place. A single HB tuner plate (one side's worth of six (6) tuners) weighs 3.72 oz (106g), where the original tuners weigh 4.74 oz (134.5g). Unlike the original tuners, I could not get all the posts to sit perfectly snug against the plate by tightening the screws holding the gears in place (there was still some wiggling on four (4) of twelve (12) posts - I believe the screws are bottoming out on those four (4) posts, which could be remedied). The particular tuners I ordered have a different button style. Overall, I believe the Harley Benton 6-on-a-plate tuners are a viable replacement tuner for Guild 12 strings.

 

[Nuuska]

WOW - that was fast

 

[Christopher Cozad]

I agree. Ordered on a Friday, received them the following Wednesday - from Germany to South Carolina, USA.

 

[SFIV1967]

Those Harley Benton (Thomann's own house brand name) tuners look pretty good on that Guild headstock I have to say!

Ralf