Replacement for EMG's on '85 Nightbird
- Thread starter SBrem
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SBrem
Junior Member
I was thinking having wooden ones made, but found a pair of early ‘70’s HB-1/XR7 rings on eBay. They should be here tomorrow. I noticed the other day that my original bridge ring is broken; anyone have a favorite glue for that? One that would flex a little when reinstalled?
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I've always used Krazy Glue. In my mind flex isn't as important as just not over-tightening those screws.
hey steve did u get a chance to see which white wires go where? if u could number them as u see them in ur pictures ie switch rg lug center lug left lug any help would be appreciated . iam almost there just have the two pickup leads to go and two wires on pp. ur picture seams like the wire coming in from the jack goes to the center lug of 25k pot and ground toright what appears to be the neck pickup to the left lug . my wiring is a bit different .i have the white wire from the pp pot left lug going to the center lug on 25k pot i guess the wire coming in from the jack is to go to the left lug ground to right lug?
SBrem
Junior Member
My rings from eBay came in, and they are just right. A little later today, after some house chores are done, I'll be pulling out the electronics, with a little trepidation. I always go ultra slow when doing something like this as I don't do it often enough. I'll track all of those wires for you Kent as best I can.
SBrem
Junior Member
The pickups are EMG 60, in both positions. There are 2 wires, a red one, and a thicker white one which is actually a white insulation around a braided shield with a thin white insulated wire. The braids were joined together with a bare ground that goes around the pots and to the jack, of course. The white insulated wire from the bridge pickup goes to an end post on the push/pull tone pot; the white insulated wire from the neck pickup goes to the middle post of the phase switch. I can take some pix later. The red wires are joined together with 2 other red wires, one to the battery terminal, and the other to the phase switch, but I, uh, apparently broke it off while desoldering them where the 4 of them were joined, D-oh! Fortunately, a pic I took yesterday shows where it goes. I had posted earlier that I had found a disconnected black wire that appeared to be going to the phase switch, but instead, it's a ground wire going to the tailpiece post. Tested it for continuity and voila!
SBrem
Junior Member
OK, let me see what I can do here; looking at the switch from the bottom, and the push/pull pot straight on, (pot on top, 2 columns of 3 below) the left lug of the switch goes to the middle left terminal of the p/p, the center lug of the switch goes to the left lug of the volume, and the right lug of the tone pot, and the right lug of the switch goes to right center terminal of the p/p.
From the jack, I have a thicker black insulation, with a braided shield and white insulated wire. The white does indeed go to the center lug of the volume control, with the braid to ground. On the p/p pot, there are capacitors (I think) on both the left and right column top and bottom. Dark green on the right, says .01K, 100NEM, and yellow on the left, says 502K100V. Also on the top left is a green wire that goes to the phase switch, off the right top a white wire that goes somewhere, I have to check the pix one more time to work that out.
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SBrem
Junior Member
Here's my drawing, I hope it's not too crude, and if anyone sees something awry, let me know so I can double check, this is a hair above my pay grade, but I think it's right. I've received my pickups and pickup rings, I'm just waiting for the new pots and toggles so I can finish up. Thanks again to everyone for their help.
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Made a pic out of it for you. If you don't want that let me know and I'll remove it.
SBrem
Junior Member
That's fine thanks, I wasn't sure which format, I drew it in Illustrator, lots of options.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Here are additions and corrections to the drawing:
The yellow capacitor marked with 502K has a value of 5 nF. ( 50 times 10^2 = 5,000 pF = 5 nF = 0.005 mF) (picofarads, nanofarads, microfarads). The "k" means it has a 10% tolerance. (A "J" would mean 5% tolerance). 100V means for maximum 100 volts.
The dark green capacitor marked with .01 has a value of 0.01 mF = 10 nF. The 100 again refers to 100 volts max voltage and NEM is the series of those polyester film capacitors. Those NEM series capacitors were produced in Japan and sold in the US by NIC Components Corp., where NIC stands for Nippon Industries Co. Ltd. as far as I know.
But the brown disc capacitor which sends the signal from the tone pot to ground has a wrong value in your drawing! You marked it with .047, which would be 47 nF but that is wrong! Look again at your capacitor:
It's marked with 104 ! And that means 10 times 10^4 which is 100.000 pF = 100 nF = 0.1 μF ! This is the typical value for EMG pickups.
Now you might be curious what the letter "Z" means which together with the 4 you thought to be a 47. It is again a tolerance. As this is a dirt cheap capacitor used, the letter Z donates a tolerance of +80 percent (!!) and -20 percent. That means the capacitor, which is nominal rated at 100 nF, might be as much as 80 percent higher or 20 percent lower.
Ralf
The yellow capacitor marked with 502K has a value of 5 nF. ( 50 times 10^2 = 5,000 pF = 5 nF = 0.005 mF) (picofarads, nanofarads, microfarads). The "k" means it has a 10% tolerance. (A "J" would mean 5% tolerance). 100V means for maximum 100 volts.
The dark green capacitor marked with .01 has a value of 0.01 mF = 10 nF. The 100 again refers to 100 volts max voltage and NEM is the series of those polyester film capacitors. Those NEM series capacitors were produced in Japan and sold in the US by NIC Components Corp., where NIC stands for Nippon Industries Co. Ltd. as far as I know.
But the brown disc capacitor which sends the signal from the tone pot to ground has a wrong value in your drawing! You marked it with .047, which would be 47 nF but that is wrong! Look again at your capacitor:
It's marked with 104 ! And that means 10 times 10^4 which is 100.000 pF = 100 nF = 0.1 μF ! This is the typical value for EMG pickups.
Now you might be curious what the letter "Z" means which together with the 4 you thought to be a 47. It is again a tolerance. As this is a dirt cheap capacitor used, the letter Z donates a tolerance of +80 percent (!!) and -20 percent. That means the capacitor, which is nominal rated at 100 nF, might be as much as 80 percent higher or 20 percent lower.
Ralf
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SBrem
Junior Member
Thanks Ralf, for the correction on the cap where I saw the Z as a 7 
. Why would they use such a cheap cap there when the rest of the guitar is, well, a Nightbird? Unless it doesn't really make any difference? As I noted earlier, I'm not a tech, so it took me a while to dope it all out. Also, thanks for explaining the caps on the tone controls, not that I totally understand, but a few more reads and the light will go on. GAD, I'd like to update the drawing so it's correct, can I just delete the original in that post and replace it with the correction (I'll make it a PNG instead of the PDF)?
Steve
. Why would they use such a cheap cap there when the rest of the guitar is, well, a Nightbird? Unless it doesn't really make any difference? As I noted earlier, I'm not a tech, so it took me a while to dope it all out. Also, thanks for explaining the caps on the tone controls, not that I totally understand, but a few more reads and the light will go on. GAD, I'd like to update the drawing so it's correct, can I just delete the original in that post and replace it with the correction (I'll make it a PNG instead of the PDF)?Steve
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Thanks Ralf, for the correction on the cap where I saw the Z as a 7
Steve
Absolutely. When you do I'll delete mine.
As for "why the cheap cap" discussion, I am in the camp of those who believe that things like super rare high-end bumblebee caps don't matter, and I'm the kind of guy that loves to upgrade things. IMO the pots have a far greater impact on tone than the caps.
Nuuska
Enlightened Member
Hello
I have one quick theory why the tone capacitor in guitar doesn't have to be top-quality.
When you look at the circuit - the cap is shorting the "unwanted portion" of the sound into ground - so not that critical.
If it would be in a part of an amp etc - where it would be coupling the signal to next stage without loss or degradation - the the quality would matter more.
I have one quick theory why the tone capacitor in guitar doesn't have to be top-quality.
When you look at the circuit - the cap is shorting the "unwanted portion" of the sound into ground - so not that critical.
If it would be in a part of an amp etc - where it would be coupling the signal to next stage without loss or degradation - the the quality would matter more.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Sounds original to me as other 1985 Nightbirds had such a JK100 (100 nF) tone capacitor.
Ralf
ralps rite on point. i have a suspition that a lot of electronics from back in the day used what was available. parts followed the same path ,what was available they use hence my nightbird had one plastic oblong strap lock and one metal brass one. i was told thats the way it came {who knows}
ps by the way ceramic caps sound a little bit different from poly caps but not that much. i really think its all in the perception of what we hear. we all were given the same equiptment. yet we all hear a little different thats what makes music so much fun.