Recording Equipment Question

[dreadnut]

Thanks for the kind words, midnightright.

Actually it's just a 3-finger picking style I've developed over the years, never really tried to copy Travis or anyone else.

 

[PAPADON]

The Focusrite is obviously a well thought of and popular choice but their are others so as with everything shop around and do your research before buying. Other than the performance specs another thing to think about is the sturdiness of the unit itself. You're looking for something with an all metal case with knobs and jacks that don't wiggle around. I ended up choosing an M-Track 2X2. It's got the features, low latency and is as good as any in its price range. It's also built like a tank. It came packaged with Pro Tools but my recommendation at least in the beginning would be to start with Audacity which can be downloaded free on the net. There's a huge learning curve with all of these DAW's and when I was going through that I found Audacity to be the most user friendly.

So my rig ended up being an M'Track 2X2, a small set of Presonus monitors, and an Audiotechnica AT2035 condenser mic with a switch for bass cut which is very nice to have especially when recording acoustic.

 

[johnreardon]

I've heard it said, that you've got to sort of turn the amp up, in order to get a good recorded sound (in an electric guitar setting). Though, I don't know if this applies to certain amps, more than others (vintage Fender / vs. Modern Marshall); like, I've often heard at least to that point of tube-break up: whatever that "sweet spot,' is!

Nice work on that one, @dreadnut ! Is that travis-picking you're doing there? Really nice sound and job, and great guitar, by the way...

When we recorded our album, we played at more or less gig volumes with guitars and drums. The singer was in the desk booth singing a tracking vocal and we just went for it. So yes, my amp was loudish, but no more than what it would have been playing in a pub. BTW it was an Orange Dual Terror (30w) and I played a Gibson R0 straight into it, no pedals. We dubbed sax and keys where necessary

This is how we made one track. The audio is from a camera and not the desk, hence you can hear someone tapping their foot on the floor. We did a couple of instrument takes, then singer re-did the vocals and four of us over dubbed the chorus of night and day.

 

[midnightright]

The Focusrite is obviously a well thought of and popular choice but their are others so as with everything shop around and do your research before buying. Other than the performance specs another thing to think about is the sturdiness of the unit itself. You're looking for something with an all metal case with knobs and jacks that don't wiggle around. I ended up choosing an M-Track 2X2. It's got the features, low latency and is as good as any in its price range. It's also built like a tank. It came packaged with Pro Tools but my recommendation at least in the beginning would be to start with Audacity which can be downloaded free on the net. There's a huge learning curve with all of these DAW's and when I was going through that I found Audacity to be the most user friendly.

So my rig ended up being an M'Track 2X2, a small set of Presonus monitors, and an Audiotechnica AT2035 condenser mic with a switch for bass cut which is very nice to have especially when recording acoustic.

Thank you! This is all very good and useful information for me. And it is very likely that I will not have the aptitude to handle the first software that I try, regardless of price. So I appreciate your insights... I was listening to this metal guy's popular youtube channel and the UAD (or whatever it was called, was like $500, and one of the main reasons, I think he said he liked it - it's been some months - was that it had a preamp in it). I may need to look at investing in a new mic as well, not only to have a second, but it is entirely possible that the used one I picked up recently is defective. Thanks again!

 

[midnightright]

When we recorded our album, we played at more or less gig volumes with guitars and drums. The singer was in the desk booth singing a tracking vocal and we just went for it. So yes, my amp was loudish, but no more than what it would have been playing in a pub. BTW it was an Orange Dual Terror (30w) and I played a Gibson R0 straight into it, no pedals. We dubbed sax and keys where necessary

This is how we made one track. The audio is from a camera and not the desk, hence you can hear someone tapping their foot on the floor. We did a couple of instrument takes, then singer re-did the vocals and four of us over dubbed the chorus of night and day.

Wow! That is incredibly impressive that you are able to write and record an entire record! I could only dream... And I like how you guys all get into the room together to do your recording. "Old-School," and in a "Good," way! That's good advice-- "gig levels," thanks so much. . . Sounds like you guys are quite efficient in your recording methods as well - in terms of their execution. You tend to hear nowadays, about so many people being able to fine tune every last detail, until you wonder where any of the vitality comes from, or in? Thank you very much for all of the helpful tips.

 

[johnreardon]

Wow! That is incredibly impressive that you are able to write and record an entire record! I could only dream... And I like how you guys all get into the room together to do your recording. "Old-School," and in a "Good," way! That's good advice-- "gig levels," thanks so much. . . Sounds like you guys are quite efficient in your recording methods as well - in terms of their execution. You tend to hear nowadays, about so many people being able to fine tune every last detail, until you wonder where any of the vitality comes from, or in? Thank you very much for all of the helpful tips.

Actually the album is a mix of originals and covers. This was our first album and we managed to do 9 songs in 3 days. The engineer, Dave Eringa, was quite impressed. He had just finished working on the Wilco/Daltrey album 'Going Back Home' and liked working with 'old men'. Dave was familiar with the studio, lent to us by the Manic Street Preachers, so knew the desk.

We are hoping to record another one, this all of originals, which we have around 15

 

[Glen]

Hi,

I would agree with the suggested interfaces. There will be a bit of a learning curve with the recording software, but once you have the basics, you will be fine. As for mics...if you are singing/playing in one take, I'd recommend a large diaphram condenser for the vocals, and a small diaphram condenser for the guitar, about 8-12" from the 12th fret. You will need to experiment with input levels, and placement of the mics, but this is a good basic singer/guitarist configuration.

 

[midnightright]

Actually the album is a mix of originals and covers. This was our first album and we managed to do 9 songs in 3 days. The engineer, Dave Eringa, was quite impressed. He had just finished working on the Wilco/Daltrey album 'Going Back Home' and liked working with 'old men'. Dave was familiar with the studio, lent to us by the Manic Street Preachers, so knew the desk.

We are hoping to record another one, this all of originals, which we have around 15

Well, if you worked with someone with those acts or artists on his resume, you guys are in good hands, and must seriously know your stuff! That's still really quite marvelous to me that you were able to get all those tracks down in such a short time span. Probably the final product benefited from this, I'd bet. Best of luck to you with the original material! I can only imagine how exhilarating that must be...

 

[midnightright]

Hi,

I would agree with the suggested interfaces. There will be a bit of a learning curve with the recording software, but once you have the basics, you will be fine. As for mics...if you are singing/playing in one take, I'd recommend a large diaphram condenser for the vocals, and a small diaphram condenser for the guitar, about 8-12" from the 12th fret. You will need to experiment with input levels, and placement of the mics, but this is a good basic singer/guitarist configuration.

Thank you for the invaluable information! Every last bit of it is precious to me, and who knows how long, or even if I would have ever come to those discoveries!

 

[johnreardon]

Thank you for the invaluable information! Every last bit of it is precious to me, and who knows how long, or even if I would have ever come to those discoveries!

Agree with the condenser mic for vocals and guitar

We recorded an acoustic song on our album. This is the first run through of the song with 3 acoustics playing and a tracking vocal. Not sure what make they were but no doubt someone will recognise. The acoustics were only miced up, not plugged in. The singer and chap playing the Gretsch had one mic. I had the one you see to the right of my bald head and also had another one pointing around the 12th fret of the neck. This was recorded by one of the band using a camera and not from the desk

Think we did another run through before the singer did his proper vocals and we added sax and a one string electric slide for the choruses



The final album version can be heard on this video

 

[AcornHouse]

FYI
Focusrite has refurbished with full warranty unit for sale. Save some money. Even has previous generations.
https://store.focusrite.com/en-gb/categories/refurbished-products/focusrite-refurbished

 

[midnightright]

Agree with the condenser mic for vocals and guitar

We recorded an acoustic song on our album. This is the first run through of the song with 3 acoustics playing and a tracking vocal. Not sure what make they were but no doubt someone will recognise. The acoustics were only miced up, not plugged in. The singer and chap playing the Gretsch had one mic. I had the one you see to the right of my bald head and also had another one pointing around the 12th fret of the neck. This was recorded by one of the band using a camera and not from the desk

Think we did another run through before the singer did his proper vocals and we added sax and a one string electric slide for the choruses



The final album version can be heard on this video

Holy cow! You guys are GOOD. That is just Incredible, to me... & thanks again for the wealth of knowledge. Very helpful, indeed-
It's pretty cool that you've captured this footage, too, of your recording session. What a wonderful documentation to have of the process!

Again, I like how you are all sitting in the same room and playing together at the same time! I've heard that sounds can spill, or bleed over onto neighboring mic's (at least, "once upon a time!").

 

[midnightright]

FYI
Focusrite has refurbished with full warranty unit for sale. Save some money. Even has previous generations.
https://store.focusrite.com/en-gb/categories/refurbished-products/focusrite-refurbished

Thanks a ton, man!!!e I will definitely check those out, and I am leaning towards the 3rd Gen Focusrite 2i2 w/the 2 inputs -(as of now!). Ha..

 

[johnreardon]

Holy cow! You guys are GOOD. That is just Incredible, to me... & thanks again for the wealth of knowledge. Very helpful, indeed-
It's pretty cool that you've captured this footage, too, of your recording session. What a wonderful documentation to have of the process!

Again, I like how you are all sitting in the same room and playing together at the same time! I've heard that sounds can spill, or bleed over onto neighboring mic's (at least, "once upon a time!").

Thanks for the complement. Not sure we are that good, just been playing a long time.

We have an old friend come along to take videos & pics at gigs and the few occasions we rehearse. He used to be our manager in the early 60s and took a lot of pics back then from 1963 to about 1966. The pic, below, he took at an audition for our singer. We had hair and a lot less weight then. Sadly the bass player passed on a few years ago. The rest of us are still playing together and on the album.

Yes sounds can spill across over mics. No problems with the acoustic though. If you listen to the album audio on the second video. I am coming out of the right speaker, the other chap playing the Gretsch is on the left and the singer's guitar is in the middle. With the electric tracks, the studio has baffles around the amps. The one you see at the back enclosed the other guitarist. My amp was located behind the singer. The drums were behind the other guitarist. Yes on the instruments there is some bleed, but not with the vocals as they were done in the desk booth. Keys and sax were over dubbed in the instrument room. For electric tracks we played with headphones on

 

[midnightright]

Thanks so much for all of this! And the quotation I was referencing was actually intended to be in a positive light, I believe, in that -- it helps to create the "live," environment & perhaps "organic" feel that you don't always get, or associate with records / albums made to-day...

Your photograph, and story, remind me of my Father - who also played in a band (bass), but more like mid to late 60's / so obviously, quite "beatles," inspired! I think he was telling me that they played Vox's; but more the full-stack variety (which I've almost never even seen, in comparison to the combos - AC 30's & such).

Sorry to hear about the bass player. I think my Dad left the band after high school, but the rest kept going. And their primary guitar player was apparently still playing solo stuff in Vegas, or something...

I like how you add, or have other instruments to accompany yours, as well. That really enhances or opens up / widens the sound (tonal spectrum). It's cool, I played Trumpet in school (but haven't hardly since), and was much better at that than guitar!

 

[midnightright]

Up until a few years ago, I had been working with a former Program Director (or some fancy title, basically in charge of putting everything together, in addition to being an on-air, persona or talent) for the local University radio station. And he was a guitar player, and borderline musicologist. He wrote columns for the local paper, and was so good with his musical reviews and interviews and such (which he also did on air, and usually in studio), that they eventually asked him to add or incorporate movies into his workload as well. Even though this wasn't his forte, he did very well here too, given that he was so literate and intelligent, and had an appreciation for the classics!

But anyway, he would tell me all the time about how he'd be positioning the mics for acts that were coming through town, sometimes on the fly, while they were being interviewed and performing on campus. I guess he played in some bands previously, just locally, and that he said the biggest change that had occurred, was that say back in the 80's you had to play covers. Now, and for a while now, you've got to do originals. Even if they aren't always that great, leave a lot to be desired - or just downright stink! : )

His background or first love was in jazz guitar, and he was incredibly well versed in guitars and music. So, although I got to a chance to pick his brain quite a bit on those sort of things ("What was it like to interview B. B. King?"), I never got the chance to question any of his knowledge on this sort of stuff. And given how incredibly detail-oriented he was, and well organized (mostly everything I am not), it would've been wonderful!

 

[Br1ck]

There was a Carl Perkins track he cut live with the Heartbreakers on one of his later recordings. They just burned through a classic tune live. At the end, you hear Carl say, man, you boys can play some. Digital recording really has sucked the life out of recordings. You loose the feel and gain precision, a poor tradeoff IMHO.

 

[swiveltung]

I've been down the home recording wormhole a few times. By the time I get nearly ready to actually record (months) I'm worn out. I know there are some who can get there, not me. Computer wasn't a good trip at all. Very poor sound when I did it. I found that even a hand held Korg with two mic's built in or plug ins for other mic's got great results.... as anything complicated.
Frankly though, For all the attempts and money I spent, I should have just went to a local recording studio!. $25-30 an hour.

 

[West R Lee]

I have a Tascam portable unit but I'm not happy with the sound quality. Problem is, once you put a microprocessor in something you have a thousand options and I have yet to find the right combination.

Surprisingly, my 35mm Canon EOS Rebel shoots quite good video and sound:

I enjoyed that Marc, And man how I love your DV52. Timely thread, I've been looking at the Focusrite myself.


West

 

[West R Lee]

As I mentioned to Dread, this is a timely thread. It's as if y'all are reading my mind. I've been shopping Focusrite for the past couple of weeks. So Papadon....some of these guys know just how techno-challenged I am. Audacity ha? Trying to use the software is what intimidates me.

West