Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
I think you'll fall in love with it out of phase. To me, the middle position in phase is quite boring.
Questions from a new 1970 S100 Owner
- Thread starter Groundwire
- Start date
Groundwire
Member
Do you feel that way about all dual humbucker guitars, or specifically about S100’s?
I ask because, to me, both pickups on and in phase is THE sound on a 335. It adds an airiness and chime that neither pickup has on its own. I basically always play my 335 with neck volume on 8, then adjust bridge volume to taste.
the HB1’s are noticeably brighter though, and I haven’t spent too much time with them, so it may be a different beast altogether. Thanks!
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Yes, particularly Gibsons don't do much for me in the middle position, tubby, flabby, lacking bite.
My 335 has a coil split in the neck position via the tone pot, great tone as a single coil, I almost never use the full coil. This 335 has a rather ancient set of SD Seth Lovers in it. Even back when I got it, the wear and aging on the p'ups looked like they were real 1950's PAFs.
Coils splits on the HB1's are underwhelming. You clearly lose resonance and drive, it just sounds better as a full humbucker.
My Dano sounds best in the middle position, but the bridge p'up is only 3.5kΩ.
The S100 middle position tone is meh... A lot more fun out of phase with a variety of tones on tap.
It's almost comical how people still rave about that one guitar, the Peter Green LP with out of phase middle position, and yet very few guitars have that tone on tap.
To this day it's a big deal if Gibson lets you have it, "Jimmy Page" wiring, big upcharge.
My 335 has a coil split in the neck position via the tone pot, great tone as a single coil, I almost never use the full coil. This 335 has a rather ancient set of SD Seth Lovers in it. Even back when I got it, the wear and aging on the p'ups looked like they were real 1950's PAFs.
Coils splits on the HB1's are underwhelming. You clearly lose resonance and drive, it just sounds better as a full humbucker.
My Dano sounds best in the middle position, but the bridge p'up is only 3.5kΩ.
The S100 middle position tone is meh... A lot more fun out of phase with a variety of tones on tap.
It's almost comical how people still rave about that one guitar, the Peter Green LP with out of phase middle position, and yet very few guitars have that tone on tap.
To this day it's a big deal if Gibson lets you have it, "Jimmy Page" wiring, big upcharge.
Groundwire
Member
I never ever mess with coil splitting. I actually don’t even have that option on any of my guitars. Just not my thing. FYI, there is a method of splitting the a humbucker using a resistor that keeps some of the second coil in there and sounds a lot better, not nearly as weak. Simple mod.
Danos have the pickups wired in series I think, so both on would actually be a volume boost.
I hear what you’re saying on the Gibbys. I think one thing is that it helps to have low output humbuckers. That said, I love both sounds. In and OOP. Yes, the Peter Green sound is incredible, but a lot of great tones were done with both humbuckers in phase. Cream, Zeppelin, Free, BB King.... I love both sounds. The hardest part is choosing...
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Page definitely has some of the strangest sounds coming out of his Flametop, chewy, rubbery.
I had a hard time believing for a long time that he recorded Led Zeppelin II with a Tele, I was so pre conditioned to think that was Les Paul tone. I later realized that the "Les Paul tone", a cranked LP bridge pickup tone is an awful lot like Telecaster bridge pickup tone, except not quite as good ;]
Eventually, I found tonal bliss with an Alder bodied/Maple fingerboard Strat with slightly overwound "mistery" pickups that I found in an old cigar box back in the 90's.
I think we all have a slightly different EQ in mind as that "ultimate" tone.
And the musical context.
A good example was EVH's progression to what became his uber weaponized guitar tone.
He tried a Strat. The "boys in the band" said "it's too thin". He tried a 335, too woofy.
So he took the 335 p'up and put it in a Strat body, and angled it, the rest is history.
But personally, I can't stand a Strat with a humbucker. I had a 2 humbucker "American Special" or something like that. Couldn't stand it.
A buddy of mine has a Tele (ex Albert Collins he thinks) with a 16kΩ JB in the neck position that completely blew my mind with smooth feedback through my JMP50 half stack (that used to be his). It sounded better than any LP with that p'up in it. I'm still trying to buy that guitar from him but it's of no use...
I had a hard time believing for a long time that he recorded Led Zeppelin II with a Tele, I was so pre conditioned to think that was Les Paul tone. I later realized that the "Les Paul tone", a cranked LP bridge pickup tone is an awful lot like Telecaster bridge pickup tone, except not quite as good ;]
Eventually, I found tonal bliss with an Alder bodied/Maple fingerboard Strat with slightly overwound "mistery" pickups that I found in an old cigar box back in the 90's.
I think we all have a slightly different EQ in mind as that "ultimate" tone.
And the musical context.
A good example was EVH's progression to what became his uber weaponized guitar tone.
He tried a Strat. The "boys in the band" said "it's too thin". He tried a 335, too woofy.
So he took the 335 p'up and put it in a Strat body, and angled it, the rest is history.
But personally, I can't stand a Strat with a humbucker. I had a 2 humbucker "American Special" or something like that. Couldn't stand it.
A buddy of mine has a Tele (ex Albert Collins he thinks) with a 16kΩ JB in the neck position that completely blew my mind with smooth feedback through my JMP50 half stack (that used to be his). It sounded better than any LP with that p'up in it. I'm still trying to buy that guitar from him but it's of no use...
Groundwire
Member
I’ve never found a Les Paul that I got in with. I’ve had a few, and they were always heavy, Honky, and had a sharp attack. I’ve probably never played a good one, but to me, anything you’d use a Les Paul for, could be done as well or better with an SG or a 335. Softer attack, more air, and easier to play.
Agreed on Strats with humbuckers. I even tried a filtertron in a Strat. It lasted about a month and that I said “Well that was a nice little experiment”...
Everyone also thought the Stairway to Heaven solo was a Les Paul, until we learned it was a Tele, and direct to the board at that... I think part of that Pagey sound was the small Amps he’d use and his knowledge of recording techniques. He got some of the coolest sounds in some likely unconventional ways. A modern guy that does this well is Josh Homme from Queens of the Stone Age. He could be using an Ampeg V4B, or a Pignose, but it always sounds awesome.
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
The V4B is my favorite amp in the whole world. If only it didn't weigh 75lbs...
Why Ampeg didn't surpass Marshall with this head, I'll never understand.
At one point a few years ago, I was bi-amping my SG into a V4B on top of a '73 8x10 cab on one side of the room, and a '74 JMP50 on 4x12 cab on the other side of the room.
Blackface Fender Reverb tank and 12AX7 powered SIB Varidrive into the JMP50, and thick sided Russky Big Muffsky and Mu-Tron Phasor II into the V4B.
The volume and tone were monstrous ;]
And yeah, that is a really BIG ratchet on the head ;]
Why Ampeg didn't surpass Marshall with this head, I'll never understand.
At one point a few years ago, I was bi-amping my SG into a V4B on top of a '73 8x10 cab on one side of the room, and a '74 JMP50 on 4x12 cab on the other side of the room.
Blackface Fender Reverb tank and 12AX7 powered SIB Varidrive into the JMP50, and thick sided Russky Big Muffsky and Mu-Tron Phasor II into the V4B.
The volume and tone were monstrous ;]
And yeah, that is a really BIG ratchet on the head ;]
Groundwire
Member
That is an absolutely terrifying rig. My Brown Princeton and Blackface Deluxe Reverb just started whimpering...
Love the Mutron Phasor! They are so deep and chewy.
I had a Varidrive when the first came out, but I didn’t know how to use drive pedals back then (less drive, more volume- you dolt!) so I sold it thinking it was fizzy. I wish I still had that, and the Mr Echo I bought at the same time...
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
The Varidrive is a trip. I was selling mine because of the real estate and 110v vs 9v, but nobody ever bought it, thx everyone ;]
It's a real early one with clickstop pots, what a reference machine.
And then, it dawned on me I could use it to sonically test 12AX7 tubes, which I have a lot of. So now, they are all tested and ready to sell.
The one I was using on the JMP50 was the later "Black" model with "Boost" switch on the side, drove the upper right hand input of that JMP crazy. I also had the Fatdrive, and the fabled Echodrive.
You can also use 12AT and 12AY7 tubes for way mellower drive.
The hardest thing to learn about an overdrive is how to set it so that it's clean but breaks up when you dig in. That's the tone. Acoustic, and then pulverizing, just at the touch of the fingers, not the volume knob. Very Zeppelin-esque.
The inside of the "Black" Varidrive
Fatdrive and Echodrive. You can heat a small room with these. I just love the glow of the tubes through the grille.
It's a real early one with clickstop pots, what a reference machine.
And then, it dawned on me I could use it to sonically test 12AX7 tubes, which I have a lot of. So now, they are all tested and ready to sell.
The one I was using on the JMP50 was the later "Black" model with "Boost" switch on the side, drove the upper right hand input of that JMP crazy. I also had the Fatdrive, and the fabled Echodrive.
You can also use 12AT and 12AY7 tubes for way mellower drive.
The hardest thing to learn about an overdrive is how to set it so that it's clean but breaks up when you dig in. That's the tone. Acoustic, and then pulverizing, just at the touch of the fingers, not the volume knob. Very Zeppelin-esque.
The inside of the "Black" Varidrive
Fatdrive and Echodrive. You can heat a small room with these. I just love the glow of the tubes through the grille.
Groundwire
Member
Those SIB pedals are Rad, and hey, giant pedals are making a comeback...The Varidrive is a trip. I was selling mine because of the real estate and 110v vs 9v, but nobody ever bought it, thx everyone ;]
It's a real early one with clickstop pots, what a reference machine.
And then, it dawned on me I could use it to sonically test 12AX7 tubes, which I have a lot of. So now, they are all tested and ready to sell.
The one I was using on the JMP50 was the later "Black" model with "Boost" switch on the side, drove the upper right hand input of that JMP crazy. I also had the Fatdrive, and the fabled Echodrive.
You can also use 12AT and 12AY7 tubes for way mellower drive.
The hardest thing to learn about an overdrive is how to set it so that it's clean but breaks up when you dig in. That's the tone. Acoustic, and then pulverizing, just at the touch of the fingers, not the volume knob. Very Zeppelin-esque.
The inside of the "Black" Varidrive
Fatdrive and Echodrive. You can heat a small room with these. I just love the glow of the tubes through the grille.
Groundwire
Member
So, I wanted to send an update on my S100. I just got it back from my tech who refretted it and performed some other necessary maintenance. His fretwork is outstanding. Look at this:
He sanded down the nibs of the binding (which were no longer really aligned with the frets anyways as the binding has shrunken over time) and extended the frets to slightly overlap the binding giving more fretboard real estate.
You can actually see where the binding has shrunken because it’s pulled away and left a small gap at the nut:
With the extra room on the board, I can now take advantage of the adjustable string spacing on the bridge, giving a bit wider spacing for better finger style playing. Before the strings were a bit crowded together.
One thing this did reveal however, is that vintage guitars were not as homogeneous as modern ones, and this Guild is no exception. The bridge and pickups were not exactly center aligned. You can see that the bridge is off enter to the right, so the treble strings veer off at a sharper angle than the bass strings, and the strings don’t align exactly with the pole pieces. I personally don’t think it matters at all if the pole pieces are perfectly aligned because the string is still well within the magnetic field and it doesn’t sound weak at all, but it is certainly an indicator of the handmade nature of older guitars.
One other cool thing my tech did, is that he dropped a bit of this plastic epoxy/resin/goo on the edges of the high and low E string saddles. These Hagstrom bridges have very sharp saddles, and rather than bevel the edge and risk having the chrome plating flake off, he just put a drop of this clear goo on the edges to soften them up. It just peels off it I for some reason decide I want to start stabbing my palm again...
So, how is it? Fantastic. With the higher frets it plays great, has wonderful sustain, and I can bend all over the neck. Much better to play. The only “downside” if you could call it one is that it now feels more like a modern guitar, if that makes sense. Something about having to fight those flat frets reminded you that you were playing an older guitar. But it’s much more useable now and I’m quite taken with it. Very glad I made this purchase.
I do still need to get some longer springs so I can lower the pickups a bit. This guitar has super hot pickups and it is insanely loud, but I can’t lower the pickups much or the springs lose all tension and they wobble around and become very microphonic. Even as hot as they are, these pickups sound amazing. What a cool guitar.
He sanded down the nibs of the binding (which were no longer really aligned with the frets anyways as the binding has shrunken over time) and extended the frets to slightly overlap the binding giving more fretboard real estate.
You can actually see where the binding has shrunken because it’s pulled away and left a small gap at the nut:
With the extra room on the board, I can now take advantage of the adjustable string spacing on the bridge, giving a bit wider spacing for better finger style playing. Before the strings were a bit crowded together.
One thing this did reveal however, is that vintage guitars were not as homogeneous as modern ones, and this Guild is no exception. The bridge and pickups were not exactly center aligned. You can see that the bridge is off enter to the right, so the treble strings veer off at a sharper angle than the bass strings, and the strings don’t align exactly with the pole pieces. I personally don’t think it matters at all if the pole pieces are perfectly aligned because the string is still well within the magnetic field and it doesn’t sound weak at all, but it is certainly an indicator of the handmade nature of older guitars.
One other cool thing my tech did, is that he dropped a bit of this plastic epoxy/resin/goo on the edges of the high and low E string saddles. These Hagstrom bridges have very sharp saddles, and rather than bevel the edge and risk having the chrome plating flake off, he just put a drop of this clear goo on the edges to soften them up. It just peels off it I for some reason decide I want to start stabbing my palm again...
So, how is it? Fantastic. With the higher frets it plays great, has wonderful sustain, and I can bend all over the neck. Much better to play. The only “downside” if you could call it one is that it now feels more like a modern guitar, if that makes sense. Something about having to fight those flat frets reminded you that you were playing an older guitar. But it’s much more useable now and I’m quite taken with it. Very glad I made this purchase.
I do still need to get some longer springs so I can lower the pickups a bit. This guitar has super hot pickups and it is insanely loud, but I can’t lower the pickups much or the springs lose all tension and they wobble around and become very microphonic. Even as hot as they are, these pickups sound amazing. What a cool guitar.
Attachments
Groundwire
Member
One other quick aside about the bridge/tailpiece:
When I first got the guitar home, I felt it was playing a little stiff, and I thought it must be the new frets or that I just needed to play it a bit. I was going to check the action when I noticed that a couple of the ball ends of the strings were rotated in the ferrules and sitting sideways. I took a small screwdriver and rotated them so they would sit flat in the slots and “pop”, as they slid into place, the tension on the whole bridge somehow evened out. The action came down slightly, and the whole guitar loosened up. Suddenly it played so much easier, with less tension. Who know that just having ball end of the string turned in the slot could make such a difference on the tension of the bridge.... It was like a new guitar. Crazy.
Oh and I forgot to mention, my tech dropped some solder into the divot in the trem arm to fill the extra gap that had been created over the years. The arm stays in place now, without wiggling around. Sweet.
When I first got the guitar home, I felt it was playing a little stiff, and I thought it must be the new frets or that I just needed to play it a bit. I was going to check the action when I noticed that a couple of the ball ends of the strings were rotated in the ferrules and sitting sideways. I took a small screwdriver and rotated them so they would sit flat in the slots and “pop”, as they slid into place, the tension on the whole bridge somehow evened out. The action came down slightly, and the whole guitar loosened up. Suddenly it played so much easier, with less tension. Who know that just having ball end of the string turned in the slot could make such a difference on the tension of the bridge.... It was like a new guitar. Crazy.
Oh and I forgot to mention, my tech dropped some solder into the divot in the trem arm to fill the extra gap that had been created over the years. The arm stays in place now, without wiggling around. Sweet.
jp
Senior Member
Who's your tech, Groundwire? Curious to see if I've used him/her before.
Groundwire
Member
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
geoguy
Senior Member
I like that speedy re-stringing method. 
First saw it on a video from Lark Street Music in New Jersey (mentioned by this fellow as he began re-stringing the guitar). Lark Street is owned by a guy name Buzzy Levine, the older brother of one of my favorite Boston-area guitar players, Duke Levine:
First saw it on a video from Lark Street Music in New Jersey (mentioned by this fellow as he began re-stringing the guitar). Lark Street is owned by a guy name Buzzy Levine, the older brother of one of my favorite Boston-area guitar players, Duke Levine:
jp
Senior Member
Ah. I've never used him before. I'm acquainted with his partner Christian from musician days long ago. I always use Jim at Guitar Works. He's done everything from refrets to neck resets for me, and I've always been really impressed.
Groundwire
Member
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Just my opinion but what I just witnessed to me is horrible restringing on many levels.
A) Attacking the strings like that with a pair of dikes right over the fingerboard, YIKES! you could easily gauge the fretboard. If you must clip strings (unnecessary), do it over the soundhole on loose strings, not ever over the fretboard. Never seen it done like that before and I've hung out in a lot of shops watching guys work over the years.
B) Many owner's manuals - including Guild - instruct you to take strings off one at a time to preserve the tension on the neck. The way the strings pop when cut indicate they're still tensioned, so the neck just went from full tension to nothing in seconds.
C) If you have all the strings off despite what the manual says, wouldn't that be a great time to Gorgomyte the frets/fingerboard, and then apply Bore oil? Speed isn't everything, as most of my past lovers have pointed out ;]
D) Never EVER jumble the bridge pins like that. Ever. They need to be kept in order in reinserted in their original position.
E) Kinking the string to prevent slipping , "this way, that way" is much better explained as "on bass strings, kink the strings clockwise, counterclockwise on the trebles". This is fairly instinctive that you want to turn them against the rotation of the tuner shaft.
F) There's no way I'm ever taking a pair of pliers to my tuner shafts. I don't like using any tools around the headstock face, too much of a chance for a scratch or self inflicted boo boo that makes me want to sell the instrument so I can stop being reminded of a needless mistake.
Most pros have many many guitars, I can't see restringing a particular guitar under the gun between songs. I roadied for a really great and very popular band in the 80's, and even then everybody had a backup guitar.
To me, a string change is a time of reflective meditation and appreciation for the instrument, not a race.
I started changing the strings on my '65 Dano this morning, going back up from .009's to 10's because I'm suddenly in love with Open E again, and taking it further than before.
I got the Low E off, and then had to go do some farm chores. It's still waiting for me on the bed upstairs. It make take me all day to change them, one string here, one string there. No hurry, in fact, I like prolonging it, it's tantric ;]
To each his own, and there's a reason why I don't like letting a guitar out of my sight.
A) Attacking the strings like that with a pair of dikes right over the fingerboard, YIKES! you could easily gauge the fretboard. If you must clip strings (unnecessary), do it over the soundhole on loose strings, not ever over the fretboard. Never seen it done like that before and I've hung out in a lot of shops watching guys work over the years.
B) Many owner's manuals - including Guild - instruct you to take strings off one at a time to preserve the tension on the neck. The way the strings pop when cut indicate they're still tensioned, so the neck just went from full tension to nothing in seconds.
C) If you have all the strings off despite what the manual says, wouldn't that be a great time to Gorgomyte the frets/fingerboard, and then apply Bore oil? Speed isn't everything, as most of my past lovers have pointed out ;]
D) Never EVER jumble the bridge pins like that. Ever. They need to be kept in order in reinserted in their original position.
E) Kinking the string to prevent slipping , "this way, that way" is much better explained as "on bass strings, kink the strings clockwise, counterclockwise on the trebles". This is fairly instinctive that you want to turn them against the rotation of the tuner shaft.
F) There's no way I'm ever taking a pair of pliers to my tuner shafts. I don't like using any tools around the headstock face, too much of a chance for a scratch or self inflicted boo boo that makes me want to sell the instrument so I can stop being reminded of a needless mistake.
Most pros have many many guitars, I can't see restringing a particular guitar under the gun between songs. I roadied for a really great and very popular band in the 80's, and even then everybody had a backup guitar.
To me, a string change is a time of reflective meditation and appreciation for the instrument, not a race.
I started changing the strings on my '65 Dano this morning, going back up from .009's to 10's because I'm suddenly in love with Open E again, and taking it further than before.
I got the Low E off, and then had to go do some farm chores. It's still waiting for me on the bed upstairs. It make take me all day to change them, one string here, one string there. No hurry, in fact, I like prolonging it, it's tantric ;]
To each his own, and there's a reason why I don't like letting a guitar out of my sight.
geoguy
Senior Member
I think that method of speedy string winding would be fine if a single broken string needed to be replaced quickly.
But I agree re: not cutting a string in the middle prior to replacement, if it was under tension.
But I agree re: not cutting a string in the middle prior to replacement, if it was under tension.