Questions about the F-20

[Colin K]

I've done a lot of research recently on the Guild F-20, and I've decided I'm going to sell the guitar I have currently and buy one with the money I get from selling it (the two guitars are in the same price range). I'm a mandolin player and new to playing guitar, and I like the smaller body size of the F-20 and what people have said about its volume.

I still need to decide how old the guitar I buy should be. It seems from the opinions I read that most of the praise for the F-20 is given to ones that were made before 1963 or maybe a little earlier. The reviews for some from the '50s seem to consistently say they are about as loud as a dreadnaught. The ones from the later sixties like one I am looking at seem to be as favored for their tone, but the owners of those seem less impressed with the volume.

I guess I am wondering if the quality of these guitars was significantly higher in the 50s and early 60s as opposed to the later 60s and 70s. Is there a target range of years I should be looking at?

 

[bluegrass jubilee]

I've done a lot of research recently on the Guild F-20, and I've decided I'm going to sell the guitar I have currently and buy one with the money I get from selling it (the two guitars are in the same price range). I'm a mandolin player and new to playing guitar, and I like the smaller body size of the F-20 and what people have said about its volume.

I still need to decide how old the guitar I buy should be. It seems from the opinions I read that most of the praise for the F-20 is given to ones that were made before 1963 or maybe a little earlier. The reviews for some from the '50s seem to consistently say they are about as loud as a dreadnaught. The ones from the later sixties like one I am looking at seem to be as favored for their tone, but the owners of those seem less impressed with the volume.

I guess I am wondering if the quality of these guitars was significantly higher in the 50s and early 60s as opposed to the later 60s and 70s. Is there a target range of years I should be looking at?

i really don't think it boils down to production years on these. you need to find one that sounds good to you, and is in good repair, no matter what year it is. also, old f-20's are notorious for cracks in the bridge originating at the bridge pin holes. just so you know. and in either case, i've yet to hear an f-20 that sounds as loud as a dread. but that's just been my experience.

they also brought the f-20 back as an offshore GAD model in the past couple of months. while that doesn't sound like the road you want to take, i just thought i'd throw that out there as well.

sorry if i'm not much help

 

[Jeff]

There are old F 20's & then there are old F 20's.

Mine's a 57 & it's loud all out of proportion to it's size, I wouldn't boast & say it's as loud as a Dread, but you can sure as heck hear it when it's played next to a dread.

Mine's maple plywood back & sides, back for sure, sides may be solid?? Maple anyway, 59 or so they changed them to solid Mahogany.

I suspect what you have heard about the later models not being quite as loud is correct, I've never seen one in person, so I can't really say. Just a feeling I have.

To me the later models with the bigger headstock seem kind of counter productive to the whole small body concept, others feel the bigger headstock might add something tonaly.

Good luck finding an early model in good playable shape. I don't think they are a particularly tough design seems often the cool ones coming up on Ebay need necksets. Mine did.

 

[Colin K]

There are old F 20's & then there are old F 20's.

Mine's a 57 & it's loud all out of proportion to it's size, I wouldn't boast & say it's as loud as a Dread, but you can sure as heck hear it when it's played next to a dread.

Mine's maple plywood back & sides, back for sure, sides may be solid?? Maple anyway, 59 or so they changed them to solid Mahogany.

I suspect what you have heard about the later models not being quite as loud is correct, I've never seen one in person, so I can't really say. Just a feeling I have.

Okay, so they changed the wood. I was guessing they were always solid mahogany, but now it makes more sense. I wasn't expecting it to be as loud as a dread, but I did want it to be exceptionally loud for its size. I need a loud guitar because I play fingerstyle without long fingernails; and the problem with my current guitar is that, although it's a bit bigger (000 size), it's disappointingly quiet and doesn't have an especially interesting tone.

And the picture you posted looks really nice. I'm hoping to get one in sunburst although I'll take whatever I can find in good condition.

I'm expecting to have to put some money into resetting the neck and possibly fixing some cracks, etc. There's a good luthier in my area but he's booked into late next year.

 

[Colin K]

So is there someone here who is very impressed with the volume of the later F-20's?

 

[BluesDan]

Not much experience with the F-20 but I do have a 1959 M20 that has a ton of volume. Great projection. I'm no expert, but its my understanding that the F20's (with maybe the exception of the real early ones) were spruce top with mahogany back & sides as opposed to the all hog M20. Same body size. So basically you may want to expand your search to include the M20, unless of course you are set on finding a burst.
Good luck,
Dan

 

[capnjuan]

There are old F 20's & then there are old F 20's.

"There are bold sailors and there are old sailors, but there are no bold old sailors". Hi Colin; FWIW and all things being equal; top material, bracing, body dimensions and so on, the maple F20 is likely to have somewhat more volume than a mahogany F20. Maple is a little stiffer to start with, more so if laminated ... less 'give'. This tends to be true in larger guitars, can't think why it wouldn't follow for smaller models. cj (unregister luthier, not unlicensed in any state, avoid excessive reliance)

 

[dklsplace]

There are old F 20's & then there are old F 20's.

Mine's a 57 & it's loud all out of proportion to it's size, I wouldn't boast & say it's as loud as a Dread, but you can sure as heck hear it when it's played next to a dread.

I hafta say.....out of all the very fine Guilds at the Arlington gathering this year, Jeff's F-20 was my favorite! Had to force myself to put it down so someone else could experience the magic. 8)

 

[hansmoust]

Had to force myself to put it down so someone else could experience the magic.

Oh really! Didn't notice that! :lol:

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[West R Lee]

:lol:

West

 

[Colin K]

There are old F 20's & then there are old F 20's.

"There are bold sailors and there are old sailors, but there are no bold old sailors". Hi Colin; FWIW and all things being equal; top material, bracing, body dimensions and so on, the maple F20 is likely to have somewhat volume than a mahogany F20. Maple is a little stiffer to start with, more so if laminated ... less 'give'. This tends to be true in larger guitars, can't think why it wouldn't follow for smaller models. cj (unregister luthier, not unlicensed in any state, avoid excessive reliance)

Hi. I'm trying to determine how much more volume the maple version will have. I played a Taylor 612 yesterday, which had a solid maple back and maple sides. This was about a 00-size guitar I think, maybe a 000-size. It was louder than my spruce top and mahogany Martin 000-1, but I don't think it was a lot louder. The bass sound was a lot better though.

If the volume difference is not a lot I may settle for a mahogany F-20.

And to whomever suggested the M-20: I'm familiar with that model from the cover of Nick Drake's Bryter Layter, and I have heard an M-20 and like the sound a lot. The spruce sound is more what I'm looking for, though. I might have to own one of each eventually.

Also, any other recommendations other than the F-20 will be helpful.

 

[Scratch]

:lol:

West

+1 8)

 

[caveman]

I'm expecting my 1967 F20 (not a burst) to arrive next week. Grabbed it on Ebay lately, and when it gets here, I'll post my personal opinion. Don't know exactly what to expect, but couldn't let it pass for 600 euro.

 

[Russell Letson]

Predicting the tonal/volume qualities of a particular guitar is a tricky business, since there are variables other than materials that can have a powerful effect--particularly bracing and top thickness. It's even a bit of a crapshoot when trying to characterize the build formula (body size/materials/bracing pattern/bridge placement) that produces a given model.

In my experience, the change from maple-laminate to solid-mahogany formulas at Guild also seems to have been accompanied by a change in the overall feel of the instruments (thinner tops? lighter bracing? Hans probably has some data), and the relative handful of pre-1959 flat-tops I've played seemed less responsive than their later cousins. (Volume is harder to judge without direct comparison and an effort to control the input effort.)

That's why I no longer buy guitars without playing them--and even then, first impressions can prove unreliable once the novelty has worn off. I've sold three Guilds that on first blush seemed very nice, only to have my enthusiasm dim once I'd lived with them for a while. (Kind of like marrying in haste. . . .)

 

[Colin K]

I know exactly what you mean by your last paragraph. It couldn't have been a better summary of how I feel about the guitar that I have right now.

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Colin,

Welcome to LTG.

As a mando player (I'm Tiny Moore's worst student) I have a question for you: Do you transfer your guitar fingerpicking to mando playing?