Question for 12-String Gurus about 12-String Guitar Tuning

[Norrissey]

I'm thinking of buying a 12-string guitar in 2022, no rush. This is new territory for me - I have only played 6-string guitars in the past. As I research I am hearing that owners of 12-string guitars (especially old Gibsons) sometimes tune them down to D to reduce tension on the neck. Is this necessary with Guild 12-strings? Is it helpful to extend life of the guitar and avoid neck resets? At this point the guitars on my list in order of preference at this time are F-312s, F-212s, and JF30-12s.
Any wisdom would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[GGJaguar]

It's not necessary to tune Guild 12ers down. They were made to be played at concert pitch. My friend plays his Guild G-212 tuned down a whole step and uses a capo to play it in standard tuning if needed. He likes the guitar to sound a little darker so that's why he plays down a whole step. Neck resets are a funny thing. A guitar may not need one for 40 years or it may need one a year after leaving the factory (like my Custom Shop Martin 12-fret dreadnaught... ugh). I think de-tuning the guitar when it's not being played for long periods of time is a smart thing to do. Of course, proper humidification is of paramount importance so you'll want to pay close attention to that as well.

Good luck with your 12-string hunt (should be fun!) and l look forward to your NGD post sometime in 2022.

 

[Norrissey]

Thanks so much for the info @GGJaguar ! Sorry about your Martin : (

 

[GGJaguar]

Sorry about your Martin

It all worked out okay. I brought it to the factory and they agreed it needed a re-set and did the work under warranty for free. But still, it's kind of traumatic to do that to a basically brand new guitar.

 

[fronobulax]

I'm thinking of buying a 12-string guitar in 2022, no rush. This is new territory for me - I have only played 6-string guitars in the past. As I research I am hearing that owners of 12-string guitars (especially old Gibsons) sometimes tune them down to D to reduce tension on the neck. Is this necessary with Guild 12-strings? Is it helpful to extend life of the guitar and avoid neck resets? At this point the guitars on my list in order of preference at this time are F-312s, F-212s, and JF30-12s.
Any wisdom would be much appreciated. Thanks!

The Guild literature explicitly claims the instruments are designed to be tuned to concert pitch. So you can stop there if you want. Some people using anecdotes and their own expertise or lack thereof, tune down for mechanical reasons. No one will ever prove they didn't have to do that. Some people will tune down for whatever reason and then decide they prefer it - the two most common reasons being a mellower sound and an easier range for singing.

FWIW Mrs. Fro's D25-12 remains at concert pitch. It's a tool, not an heirloom, and most of her playing is with people playing other instruments so the hassle of having to tune and detune for every rehearsal just isn't worth it. If it needs major work during her lifetime due to damage caused by neck tension it will either be repaired or replaced and the replacement better be able to handle concert pitch tuning.

 

[Norrissey]

Very good points, thank you @fronobulax. How does Mrs Fro like her D25-12? Tom Petty play one of those quite a bit if I recall correctly.
Perhaps I should consider it if I can find one.

 

[fronobulax]

Very good points, thank you @fronobulax. How does Mrs Fro like her D25-12? Tom Petty play one of those quite a bit if I recall correctly.
Perhaps I should consider it if I can find one.

default was selling it and stopped by on a trip to elsewhere. He left it even though Mrs. Fro. had never played a 12 and wasn't interested. However, curiosity being what it is she did open the case. When default stopped by on his way home (a few days later) he left with a check.

Most of her playing is accompanying choirs or congregations. It is her "goto" instrument. I can't recall that she has ever played another 12. She's not a gearhead and in this case "good enough" is better than a possibly fruitless quest to find something better.

 

[chazmo]

Norrissey,

Many people use alternate tunings on their 12s, especially drop D (strings 11/12 down a full step) or DADGAD... But standard tuning is fine! If you're going to do that, use light or extra-light gauge strings -- no mediums or heavies(well, that's my advice anyway).

I use standard tuning but tune the whole guitar down 1/2-step and apply a capo on the first fret if I need to be in normal pitch. Some of my guitars are down a whole-step.

The only Guild 12er that wasn't designed for standard tuning (at standard pitch, that is), was the unobtanium F-612, which has a long scale (26.5", I think) and huge jumbo body (18" at lower bout). This guitar should not be tuned to pitch. John Denver had a couple of these and any time you see him use it he's playing drop-D tuning with a capo on either 1st or 2nd fret (i.e., pitched down 1/2 or whole-step). Every other Guild 12er that I'm aware of is at a normal scale length and should be fine at standard pitch.

As an aside, as you embark on your quest to find a great 12, the neck angle and the fretting of a 12 is particularly important. Thing is, with 12-strings, if the guitar needs work, you will never play it because it's uncomfortable to do so. A properly set-up 12-string is a joy to play and really isn't noticeably harder to play than a 6-string.

 

[Brad Little]

I've been playing my F212 at pitch since it was new, No problems related to that, it did need a neck reset several years ago, but that's due to age and not uncommon after 50 years.

 

[Norrissey]

Thank you so much for the info and advice @chazmo! Just curious if you are happy with your JF-30-12? That is one of the guitars I'm considering. Could that be a good first 12-string?

 

[donnylang]

I've owned tons of 12-strings (mostly vintage), and always tuned all of them to standard "E", 10-47 strings. String choice is a factor IMO. I had a '74 Martin D12-18 I bought in 2014 from the original owner- it had never had a neck reset, was always tuned standard, had super low action & plenty of saddle. And *didn't have an adjustable truss rod*. So, yes I think people overstate the tuning down of 12-strings. My own opinion is if you have to tune it down, it's not a solidly-built guitar and I would not want to own it.

 

[Norrissey]

10-47 strings. String choice is a factor IMO

Thanks Donny! Noted!

 

[chazmo]

Thank you so much for the info and advice @chazmo! Just curious if you are happy with your JF-30-12? That is one of the guitars I'm considering. Could that be a good first 12-string?

Most welcome, Norrissey.

The three 12ers you mentioned -- F-312, F-212, and JF-30-12 -- are wonderful, varied choices. The F-312 is hardest to find among those (by far). I would highly recommend an F-212 or JF-30-12 as readily obtainable for you. There are also MIC versions of these guitars that used to be available... I was able to play the GADF212 once and didn't really like it though. The GADJF3012 was appealing but never got to try that one. Those would be cheaper of course, but not all that easy to find either.

 

[chazmo]

Oh, I see I didn't really answer your question. The JF-30-12 is a Guild jumbo so the only reason I'd be wary of it as a first 12-string is its size (17" lower bout). If you have any trouble with large guitars, this might not be a good choice. The F-212 is a much smaller body.

Oh, and be aware that there is something called the F-212XL which is a jumbo-body and nothing like the F-212... If you find one of those... also a great choice, Norrissey!

 

[West R Lee]

A couple of notes about a Guild 12. First of all, Guild 12 string guitars have two truss rods which reinforce the neck, and contribute greatly to long term stability. Another point is to never use heavy gauge strings on it. If you'll use light gauge strings on a Guild 12, you'll probably never have a problem. I just sold an '89 Guild JF30-12 I'd owned for 20 years. The action was as low as anyone could ever want it, and tons of saddle left. The action hadn't moved in 20 years. I use light gauge strings, but tuned to pitch for that 20 years. : )

West

 

[dreadnut]

Made to be played. not de-tuned!

 

[fronobulax]

Guild 12 string guitars have two truss rods which reinforce the neck, and contribute greatly to long term stability.

Some do. I think 12's from New Hartford have a single truss rod but two non adjustable carbon fiber rods as well. I wn't try and say anything about when changes were made because I know I'll get it wrong.

 

[geoguy]

Wasn't that change from dual to single truss rods at Tacoma?

I also agree with the above suggestions that de-tuning a Guild 12-string is optional, to suit the owner's preference (or maybe their vocal range).

 

[awagner]

The only Guild 12er that wasn't designed for standard tuning (at standard pitch, that is), was the unobtanium F-612, which has a long scale (26.5", I think) and huge jumbo body (18" at lower bout). This guitar should not be tuned to pitch. John Denver had a couple of these and any time you see him use it he's playing drop-D tuning with a capo on either 1st or 2nd fret (i.e., pitched down 1/2 or whole-step). Every other Guild 12er that I'm aware of is at a normal scale length and should be fine at standard pitch.

I don't believe this is correct. When I had my F612 restored by Guild at the New Hartford factory, I was assured by Charlie (who had worked for Guild since the Westerly years) that the F612 was designed to withstand standard tuning. He did a fantastic restoration job, and I have kept the guitar tuned to standard for at least the last 8 years (with .10s), with no problems whatsoever.

I imagine John Denver's decision to tune down and capo up had more to do with the scale length/playability of the guitar. Or perhaps he preferred higher gauge strings.

 

[beecee]

D25-12

Mrs. Fro. had never played one...

Most of her playing is accompanying choirs or congregations. It is her "goto" instrument. I can't recall that she has ever played another 12. She's not a gearhead and in this case "good enough" is better than a possibly fruitless quest to find something better.

Good enough indeed, I'm still looking for one!!