Pot resistance values 1966 Starfire 2

[Eric66]

I’ve owned my 1966 Starfire 2 since new and it’s the standard with which I compare all other electric guitars. It’s unmolested with all the electronics original.

I recently purchased a used and modified Squier CV Custom Tele but need to change the volume pot for sure (maybe tone and switch at that point). It’s got a Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates humbucker at the neck and a Seymour Duncan Billy Gibbons Custom Shop single coil at the bridge. Due to it already having the neck humbucker I can get a satisfactory tone out of it.

I plan on using the “Tele” to help preserve my Guild Starfire for use in only the most “controlled” situations. In other words the Tele is “disposable” in the worst case.

My playing with the Guild is 95% neck pickup and then the rest with both pickups. I can’t recall when I’ve used the bridge pickup by itself.

If anyone knows the resistance values for the volume and tone pots as well as the resistors used in line with the pickups and pots on my Guild it would be appreciated. This will help to inform me how to proceed with the Tele.

Thanks

 

[chazmo]

Wow! First of all, welcome aboard, Eric.

I have no answers to your questions, but I must say you've kept your Starfire in beautiful condition for so many years. Nice job! Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[GGJaguar]

You can check out GAD's review of his 1966 Starfire III. The pots were a mix of 500K and 200K.

1966 Guild Starfire III | GAD's Ramblings

This 1966 Guild Starfire III came to me as a surprise gift. Well, it came to me after I apparently bought it on eBay while under the influence of Nyquil and Aged Rum. Well, it was fine Aged Rum and Coke (the real Mexican kind with real sugar, dammit) and then a shot of Nyquil. …

www.gad.net

 

[Eric66]

Wow! First of all, welcome aboard, Eric.

I have no answers to your questions, but I must say you've kept your Starfire in beautiful condition for so many years. Nice job! Thanks for sharing it with us.

Thanks!
I learned early on to wear my belt buckle on the left side of my pants…. Also, a chamois cloth to wipe down the neck after playing. I did have to do a fret job myself in the early part of the 1970’s due to wearing grooves in them due to my playing style (I used a rectangular sharpening stone with plenty of care). The back of the neck shows wear from the friction of my palm (and I stopped wearing a ring on my left hand for years…) And, unfortunately, I tooled the groove in the pickguard a bit too wide to prep it for the white surround stripe I painted on the inside with nail polish before I matured with a sense of tasteful eye. I have the original plush wooden case, the leather pull tab on the inside accessories flap disintegrated long ago and I have a d.i.y. fix to pull it open. The original outside metal label from the factory case fell off long ago.

The last time I played on a cramped soundstage with an 8 (9?) piece ensemble was quite nerve wracking hitting the headstock once or twice on the ceiling (not hard though) when slinging the guitar on or off for startup or break (32 tune set with intermission). Now you know why I recently bought the used Squier CV Custom Tele already modded with the neck humbucker.

 

[Eric66]

You can check out GAD's review of his 1966 Starfire III. The pots were a mix of 500K and 200K.

1966 Guild Starfire III | GAD's Ramblings

This 1966 Guild Starfire III came to me as a surprise gift. Well, it came to me after I apparently bought it on eBay while under the influence of Nyquil and Aged Rum. Well, it was fine Aged Rum and Coke (the real Mexican kind with real sugar, dammit) and then a shot of Nyquil. …

www.gad.net

Thanks for linking GAD’s review! I just read through it (saved the link and copied and pasted the portion with the pot specs. Seems 500k for neck and bridge volumes and 500k for neck tone, 200k for bridge tone. Also the .047 (bridge) and .22 (neck)…. I’ll have to reread it since I’m not sure if the diagram with the values might have been mixed up a bit inadvertently by typo….. maybe GAD will see my comment and confirm(?)…. Seems maybe the best thing to do for that “disposable” Tele could be 500k volume pot and a push/pull 250/500k tone pot. Using the resistors .047 and .22 in the line from pickup to pot as well.

I just found out about this forum earlier this week when I was scrolling through a Guild Facebook group. Serendipity!

 

[SFIV1967]

Seems 500k for neck and bridge volumes and 500k for neck tone, 200k for bridge tone. Also the .047 (bridge) and .22 (neck)….

GAD's drawing is correct (he has the neck pup on top and the bridge pup down). But there is a slight mixup of the tone pot and cap values in your sentence. In general those different values had to do with the focus more on the Jazz market than on the rock market by Guild's management at that time.

The larger capacitor value like .047mfd was at the neck p/u tone pot and the smaller value, like .01mfd or 0.022mfd was at the bridge p/u tone pot. This should give you a "darker" "jazzy" sound for the neck pickup and a clearer sound for the bridge pickup.

Now the additional lower resistance on the neck tone pot (not the bridge tone pot) also means that more high frequencies go to ground, so the neck pickup is extra “dark”.

Here is an old Starfire IV wiring diagramm from Guild (which used .047mfd and .01mfd):



I would just use whatever fit's the type of music better for you.

Ralf

 

[Eric66]

Thanks Ralf for your feedback!

Yes, I mixed up the cap values as well as miss-typed the .022 as .22….

Anyhow I’ll have to reread GAD’s review. Your response with the schematic answers my original question and is much appreciated.

I’m trying to duplicate as much as possible for the Tele since I’m considering my ‘66 Guild Starfire II as the “gold standard”…

My Starfire II has a wide ranging capability whether Jazz, Rock, Country, Standards, popular music, (I had a good time playing some “funk” rhythms and accompaniment getting people to get up and dance in the early/mid 70’s), etc. That’s what I’m aiming for in my new used modded and “disposable” Tele.

Playing the Starfire II through my Music Man HD212-130 amp brings out the best, although it’s a beast to transport, I’ve put good wheels on them, and maybe it’s a bit overkill for me at this point.

Glad I found this forum!

 

[Eric66]

Looks like I can get close to that configuration using a concentric 500/250k tone pot on the Tele that would mimic separate controls.

 

[SFIV1967]

miss-typed the .022 as .22….

No worries, we know what you mean... Hence often I prefer talking Nanofarads, so 22nF or 33nF or 47nF...

Ralf

 

[Eric66]

I see from GAD’s website write up that his Starfire III serial number is EK1590 and my Starfire II is EK1530 and I’m getting the feeling that his is original from the factory regarding pots and caps so I’m reasonably assured that my Starfire has the same.

It’s unusual that the neck humbucker has the tone pot at 200k, surprising since I’m reading up that single coils mostly use 250k to subdue the brightness while humbuckers mostly use 500k to brighten them up. Anyhow, hard to compare apples and oranges regarding the vintage Guild humbuckers vs modern pickups given my “new” used Tele configuration (modded neck Pearly Gates humbucker and bridge Billy Gibbons single coil). Maybe I’ll just settle for 500k vol pot and a simple 250k tone pot to keep it simple ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (his and your wiring diagrams have 200k tone pot on neck humbucker).

And by the way I just got reminded that I commented on GAD’s web write up back in 2019 as I reread the entire article earlier today!

 

[SFIV1967]

It’s unusual that the neck humbucker has the tone pot at 200k,

Well, like I wrote earlier, the idea was to have an "extra dark" neck pickup (the combination of 47nF cap and 200kohms pot) probably for the Jazz players and a bright sounding bridge pickup (with that 10nF only capacitor and the 500kohms pot).

Ralf

 

[Eric66]

And since I want the Tele to play Jazz and standards as well……. As it is if the vol pot was good I wouldn’t be going through all these mental machinations - although I think the tone pot is pretty weak in terms of range of tone and probably could improve with an upgrade.

Thanks!

 

[SFIV1967]

And since I want the Tele to play Jazz and standards as well…….

The good thing on any Tele is that you can make any changes so quickly compared to an internal harness like in the Starfire where it is a real hassle to change anything.
Changing the potentiometer from 500k to 250k or changing the tone cap value is so easy to do on a Tele. Just experiment a bit and see what you like!

Ralf

 

[Eric66]

Re: Tele - you got that right! So many options in easy reach it’s a bit mind boggling for someone like me.

Too bad I’ve been so spoiled by my Starfire II that I’ve never worked on guitar electronics before. I have a soldering set but but certainly am not a very skilled user with it. For the Tele (a Squier from Indonesia that plays nicely in my hands), if having a store tech or luthier doing this for me, kind of defeats the purpose of being low cost.

Re: GAD’s web review regarding tuners
My Starfire has the same ones described and I’ve long toyed around thinking to replace them but shy away due to having new holes drilled to accommodate that. However, the last time I played out on a soundstage with an ensemble, it ballooned to 32 tunes (classic rock) by the time we performed (with only 2 live rehearsals in the 2 days prior). I had to tune up just a bit after we came back from intermission and was fine to finish out. All those years back in NYC playing in small groups (mostly jazz ensemble) it was never really an issue.

I’m just now coming out of pandemic fog and getting psyched to check out a local studio that I can join a workshop to get my mental game back. We relocated at the height of the pandemic unknown back in March 2020 from the NYC area to Houston (timing by coincidence) and am just relatively recently getting to know the local community. In the meantime restoring my calluses and dexterity. Mostly focused on playing at being grandpa. No pressure!

Again, thanks for all your feedback!

 

[Eric66]

Thanks all for helping out!
I got the Tele back modified with my Starfire II specs for pot and cap values with a small compromise at tone pot (250k instead of 200k which I won’t hear a difference and especially since the Starfire could not really be reproduced exactly in terms of sound no matter what)….

Tele back on Thursday Jan 25 and my first outreach on the local social media resulted in me sitting in Monday night January 29 Jazz big band with an invite to keep coming back.

Picture shows the Tele after a modest workout loosening up my hands together with my Starfire. Couldn’t resist taking it out for a good tuneup and a mini workout.

 

[Eric66]

In case anyone is interested, here’s a close up of the Tele. It has a different capacitor (one from each pickup, .047 from neck and .022 from bridge) going to the concentric 250/250k tone pots, and a 500k volume pot.

As long as I was at it, all wiring, switch, output jack was replaced with upgraded parts as well. Note I had the control switch put to the back of the line to help get it out of the way (I’m used to the switch position from the Starfire at the upper location and had issues one time when borrowing a Tele and inadvertently bonking the switch during “strum time” comping.)