Piezo or soundhole pickup for a Guild B-30

[thompson.borge]

Hello Guilders

Have a B-30 from 1987 with a split bridge.
I wanna have a piezo or soundhole pickuo installed so that I can take it on stage as well - what are your experiences and do you have any good tips in that direction?
Thanks in advance
Thomas

 

[fronobulax]

The previous owner of my B-50 installed something. I'll wander over and get make and model eventually.

I rarely use it. I don't have a preamp or anything to control the volume except the amp and the result is that I am constantly doing something that creates feedback. I can deal with the problem if I have control of the stage setup and sound, to some extent, but if I have that much control I'm going to use a bass that is ergonomically easier to play. For me the whole point of keeping the B-50 is when I can;t use an amp.

There is a strong case for a good mic instead of a pickup. Solves some problems, creates others. Maybe @Nuuska will chime in since I have a lot of respect for his experience as a front of house sound engineer.

Oh, and welcome.

 

[mellowgerman]

I would consider one of these: https://kksound.com/products/purebass.php
I've never met an under-saddle piezo pickup that I liked the sound of, whether guitar or bass. Not even the most expensive top-shelf ones. They just always come across as having a harsh/brittle/nasal quality to me. There are some great sounding soundhole pickups, but I've never found one that truly sounds like the acoustic instrument unplugged, they just kind of sound more like a hollowbody guitar or bass with a magnetic pickup.
Short of actually using a really nice microphone (inconvenient for live use), the K&K pickups I've heard come the closest to a faithful reproduction of the acoustic sound.

 

[fronobulax]

The box, which the previous owner provided with my B-50, is for a "L. R. Biggs iBeam Active Bridge Plate Transducer System for steel stringed acoustic guitar" It was purchased in September 2002 and presumably installed soon thereafter. My inference is that a plate is installed inside the body under the bridge using sticky tape and the endpin replaced with an endpin jack (that has a preamp). My B-50 also has the split saddle but since this is installed inside, under the bridge, I don't think that matters. (However it may be the reason this was selected instead of an under saddle pickup).

This is a link to my best guess for the "current" version. https://www.lrbaggs.com/pickups/ibeam-acoustic-guitar-pickup

There is a recommendation to also use an external preamp or direct box and a comment about additional feedback control available by doing so.

When I use it, it sounds to me pretty much like the unamplified bass, only louder. I know that guitar players with good ears can listen to an amplified acoustic guitar and identify the pickup technology, but that is not me. I can tell you it works but I have no idea whether it works better than any alternatives or whether I could hear the difference.

As noted, feedback is a PITA and if I had to play the B-50 amplified a lot, I would invest in a preamp that hooked to my belt (or somewhere close by) and let me control volume and do some EQ without walking back to the amp. I'd probably need one anyway if I was going direct into a house system.

Like I said, the ergonomics are such that if I am amplified I'd much rather use an electric bass than the B-50 which, for me, requires changes in playing posture.

I have seen a couple guitar rosettes chewed up by removable soundhole pickups so, if you go that way, please get a "permanent" installation.

 

[Nuuska]

Hello

Like Mellowgerman already wrote - undersaddle pietzo most often sound harsh - and if you connect them into not high enough input impedance ( 1MOhm minimum ) they are completely unusable.

And the magnetic pups in soundhole are nothing like acoustic guitar either.

So I ended decades ago with solution - I have stereo jack for output. Magnetic pup is wired to tip so it can be used with regular guitar cord into regular guitar amp in pinch. Pietzo is wired on ring. Common ground. Then I have stereo Y-cord going into two separate preamps and tone controls + whatever one might want. Finally I mix both.

This gives a reasonable combined output that suits my playing style and my needs. Magnetic pup gives the body and pietzo adds acoustic blend.

When I lived in MN - I even built me a stage box with two stereo inputs - input selector - two sets of bass & treble - MXR-microchorus plus finally stereo master volume. Two outputs to plug into house system. All built into casing of MXR .

DANG - now I wanted to put a picture of it here - but have no idea where it dwells . . .

 

[Nuuska]

HURRAA

I found the box - great - if not then I would not sleep so good - I took some pics of it - there's even a battery in there - not leaked - so I must've used it in near past . . . have to give it a try tomorrow now that the topic is new again.

Inputs for two guitars - push-selector - blk=bass - blu=treble - gry=speed - red=master

L&R low-impedance outputs + jack for PSU

On top are - sumpting - two input and tone control amps

Middle - two VCA:s - sumpting ( summing amp maybe ? )

Bottom - output amps - bucket brigade - two transistors might be the oscillator.

The board is VERO-board - on the back the holes are connected with horizontal copper stripes. You cut them here and there to get what you want.

This makes me think again how almost nothing was impossible, when at young age and not enough money. Those days to achieve this I should've bought about 6 rack units worth of gear to achieve this. 35-38 years ago or so. Today all the stuff is dirt cheap - so no more custom builds.

 

[Nuuska]

And one more thing - while at the subject of having double pup system. I have this DeArmond M-55 which plays nicely and has only one humbucker. I took neck off and routed a small cavity - just slightly shallower than the Barcus-Berry pietzo that I had around. Then drilled a hole into pup-cavity to bring the cable. I will put a stereo jack on this guitar, too - so I can blend the pietzo-produced body sound into mix.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Two things:

You must have very small fingers to access those knobs!

How much sound do you expect to get off the back of the neck?

 

[Nuuska]

Two things:

You must have very small fingers to access those knobs!

How much sound do you expect to get off the back of the neck?

As odd as it looks - there's actually ample space for fingers - unless you want to grab the bottom of the knobs . . .

How much sound - haven't connected it yet - but suppose feedback sets natural limit - and I'm never playing that loud anyway - so I suppose I'll get enough. Once I get that far I let you guys know.

 

[mellowgerman]

I just received a "FlatCat" surface mount bass pickup in the mail yesterday. Excited to give it a try. Kind of an interesting, mysterious design. Apparently the whole face of the pickup is magnetic so it produces a wider magnetic field and is supposed to yield a nice full sounding signal. At $55 shipped, I figured there was little to lose. This would surely also work on an acoustic bass, though I was unable to find any demo recordings of their bass version pickup; they make them in all sorts of shapes and sizes for different instruments and can make them to custom dimensions too. Well, Mello to the rescue! I'll get some clips recorded and share them, along with an account of my experience.

www.etsy.com/listing/247234829/flatcat-surface-mount-electric-guitar

 

[mgod]

I’ll talk briefly about what I did with my Taylor AB-3 in ‘99.

These basses were allegedly designed for me, and I really didn’t like them, until I played one of the first AB-3s at NAMM IN 99. I bought it on the spot. It had a Baggs. I wanted one from RT. So off it goes. He installed an under-saddle, which, in my hearing, still needs to have the top-end rolled off, or you get that spitty, sizzly sound.

I usually don’t play live, so in the studio I use the p/u and a Neumann U47 for the soundhole (Rosanne Cash’s “The World Unseen” is a nice example). But if I do play live, I use a Sennheiser MD-409 above the soundhole.

The RT circuit has a blend available between the pickup and a mic you theoretically could install. I just never did. But he has one now that might work.