Pickups like the old Guild HB-1?

[dalko]

I use the term "Super 70" loosely to refer to the pickups in any Ibanez guitar with U-1000s (no model stamp) or the later stamped "Super 70s." Like with PAFs this refers to a general sonic range rather than a bunch of pickups that all sound precisely the same. The alnico 8 magnet pickups have a common character to them, in my experience anyway. The later ceramic magnet Super 70s are a different thing. The "Dry" pickups in certain Greco models from ~'79–81 and the lower-wind Super 58s in Ibanez guitars during roughly the same period have a similar character too: impressively PAF-y.

-Dave-

No problems. I was also considering the possibility that you talked about it in that sense ...

Yeah, Maxon Dry-Z pickups, 1980 until mid-1982, very good PAF sound. I have some sets of these in my spares. Also in my EGF-1800

But MAXON Super 58 sound is a different pickup ... Not sure what kind of Alnico it has. The sound is different ...

In Ibanez catalog from 1982 they talk about an Alnico III Super 58. But it's in 1982, the year of the changement from Maxon to Fujigen ...
Indeed, FUJIGEN Super 58, sounds like an Alnico III pickup. But it's the one who we can find in AM50, AM205 in All Artists from Mid-1982. The one without the S/N. This one is closer to Maxon Dry-Z, maybe even more close to Fujigen "DRY" pickup (the one with the sticker ...)

That's the reason why everything from that Era with Maxon pickups (or even with Fujigen pickups) is complicated. They worked with a lot of brands, and were always able to do something slightly different ...

It's sure that it deserves to be better explored in the future. But it's hard, because it's expensive, and there have been many different ones each year ...

 

[Quantum Strummer]

No problems. I was also considering the possibility that you talked about it in that sense ...

Yeah, Maxon Dry-Z pickups, 1980 until mid-1982, very good PAF sound. I have some sets of these in my spares. Also in my EGF-1800

But MAXON Super 58 sound is a different pickup ... Not sure what kind of Alnico it has. The sound is different ...

In Ibanez catalog from 1982 they talk about an Alnico III Super 58. But it's in 1982, the year of the changement from Maxon to Fujigen ...
Indeed, FUJIGEN Super 58, sounds like an Alnico III pickup. But it's the one who we can find in AM50, AM205 in All Artists from Mid-1982. The one without the S/N. This one is closer to Maxon Dry-Z, maybe even more close to Fujigen "DRY" pickup (the one with the sticker ...)

At the risk of going too far down the rabbit hole…I have a set of 1981 Dry pickups that were modified by replacing the original short magnets with long alnico V ones. They're very bright…nice in a hollowbody but I wouldn't put 'em in a maple-topped solidbody. Turns out the original magnets were also alnico V, as was true of a third Dry pickup rewound (it had shorted out) by the same guy. Maybe Maxon was using alnico III long magnets as well as alnico V short ones, per Gibson during the PAF period. (Gibson also used long alnico II, III & IV magnets during that period…probably just whatever they could get hold of at the right price.)

I agree that FujiGen's Dry '82 pickup and their Super 58s from the same period are very similar if not the same. I really like 'em.

-Dave-

 

[dalko]

At the risk of going too far down the rabbit hole…I have a set of 1981 Dry pickups that were modified by replacing the original short magnets with long alnico V ones. They're very bright…nice in a hollowbody but I wouldn't put 'em in a maple-topped solidbody. Turns out the original magnets were also alnico V, as was true of a third Dry pickup rewound (it had shorted out) by the same guy. Maybe Maxon was using alnico III long magnets as well as alnico V short ones, per Gibson during the PAF period. (Gibson also used long alnico II, III & IV magnets during that period…probably just whatever they could get hold of at the right price.)

I agree that FujiGen's Dry '82 pickup and their Super 58s from the same period are very similar if not the same. I really like 'em.

-Dave-

But in 1981 there is just pickups we are calling "Dry-Z" (Maxon S/N "with a "Z" stamped) used for some Greco Super Real guitars. Picture here:

Greco started with "Dry" pickups (black sticker "DRY") mid-1982 and they were made by Fujigen.

Picture here:

Can you let us know what is the pickup you are calling Dry please? Maybe there is a misunderstanding somewhere ...

 

[kakerlak]

Anybody got an idea what pickups are in my Argus? Totally unmarked, nickel covers, black plastic insulated leads inside wire braid:

 

[dalko]

No Maxon, so Gotoh pickup?

 

[Quantum Strummer]

But in 1981 there is just pickups we are calling "Dry-Z" (Maxon S/N "with a "Z" stamped) used for some Greco Super Real guitars.

Can you let us know what is the pickup you are calling Dry please? Maybe there is a misunderstanding somewhere ...

Dry is an actual Maxon model name. These pickups are usually ink stamped with a Z, thus the "Dry Z" nickname. But not all pickups with a Z stamp are Drys. A few years ago I had a bolt-neck Ibanez LP copy with Z stamped Super '70s. Shoulda taken a photo… This was likely a mistake at Maxon as the Zs are typically found in Greco guitars. I do currently have a set of Z pickups that aren't Drys as they date to 1974. They're probably U-2000s.

-Dave-

 

[Quantum Strummer]

Anybody got an idea what pickups are in my Argus? Totally unmarked, nickel covers, black plastic insulated leads inside wire braid:

Gotoh is a good guess. Is this one of the Live Road models? Never had one but they've got a good rep.

-Dave-

 

[kakerlak]

Gotoh is a good guess. Is this one of the Live Road models? Never had one but they've got a good rep.

-Dave-

It is, indeed! Really great playing/sounding guitar. The only real bummer is it's developing some Gretsch-style binding rot (as are all the live road models I've seen online). Really super Brazilian-like fretboard. As for the pickups, I've looked and looked and not found anything that seemed a perfect match. Seems like everything with braided shielding has cloth insulation inside. The unmarked baseplates have feet that seem just a little more rounded than most, too. They measured 7.59k(N)/8.25k(B) at the end of a guitar cord.

I hear the Argus 335s are especially good, too.

 

[dalko]

So, when you are talking about "Dry" you think to this one:

Which is, (for most of them, except some prototypes in 1979) made bu Maxon from 1980 to mid-1982. It's the pick-up that we usually call "Dry-Z"

It's a bit strange for me when you said:

"I have a set of 1981 Dry pickups that were modified by replacing the original short magnets with long alnico V ones. They're very bright…nice in a hollowbody but I wouldn't put 'em in a maple-topped solidbody. Turns out the original magnets were also alnico V ..."

I don't know what is the pickup you had with replacing Alnico V magnets etc ... But you must know that Greco Dry-Z has a very good reputation like the one of best PAF pickup ever made in the world. Maybe the best one after the original ...

Also, some people think Dry-Z has Alnico III magnets.

Here is the video with the sound of real Dry-Z pickups, inside a Greco EGF 1200 Super Real guitar.



And here we can find some explications about the pickup, from Yun Takano, who created Dry-Z (with Toshihide Ushimaru):

Japanese Guitars

A blog about vintage and new Tokai, Bacchus, Greco, Navigator, Burny, Orville Japanese guitars including Gibson Les Paul and Fender copies.

japaneseguitars.blogspot.com

Dry-Z : From the blog of Jun Takano Part 2

A translation of a blog entry by Jun Takano of K&T pickups on the development of the DRY-Z pickup at Fujigen for the Greco guitar line manufactured for Kanda Shokai.

japaneseguitars.blogspot.com

DRY-Z Part 3: From the blog of Jun Takano

A blog about vintage and new Tokai, Bacchus, Greco, Navigator, Burny, Orville Japanese guitars including Gibson Les Paul and Fender copies.

japaneseguitars.blogspot.com

 

[kakerlak]

Best (but not consensus) guess is that these came out of the Chushin Gakki factory around 1980. I quizzed some of the MIJ guys over at MLP and they thought these might've been in-house pickups. That could well be, as the hookup wire running from the pots to the switch is the same plastic-in-metal as what's coming from the pickups, which would make sense if they were winding their own and had spools of the stuff on hand. I forgot to point out that these are short leg humbuckers, despite The guitar being routed with full depth leg holes.

They also show no evidence of wax potting -- totally dry baseplates and nothing squeezes its way out the top or bottom of the pole screws when you adjust them. In fact, some of them were locked in place pretty tight when I first turned them and wax seems to prevent that, in my past experience.

 

[Quantum Strummer]

So, when you are talking about "Dry" you think to this one:

Which is, (for most of them, except some prototypes in 1979) made bu Maxon from 1980 to mid-1982. It's the pick-up that we usually call "Dry-Z"

Yes, that's a Dry pickup.

It's a bit strange for me when you said:

"I have a set of 1981 Dry pickups that were modified by replacing the original short magnets with long alnico V ones. They're very bright…nice in a hollowbody but I wouldn't put 'em in a maple-topped solidbody. Turns out the original magnets were also alnico V ..."

I don't know what is the pickup you had with replacing Alnico V magnets etc ... But you must know that Greco Dry-Z has a very good reputation like the one of best PAF pickup ever made in the world. Maybe the best one after the original ...

Also, some people think Dry-Z has Alnico III magnets.

The modified Dry pickups I mentioned did indeed have the Z stamp…and also had short alnico V magnets. The original magnets were tested by the person who swapped 'em out for the longer ones. Despite claims of the Drys using alnico III I know of no evidence, at least as of early 2017 when I looked into it, that this is true. Also, every Dry pickup I know of that has been taken apart for repair has turned out to have been wax potted and wound with poly-coated wire rather than the sometimes claimed plain enamel. Which tells me these things don't make a big difference to a pickup's overall sound. A friend of mine has an ES-345 with a set of PAFs rewound with Formvar-coated wire. They still sound just like PAFs.

I do think the Drys are excellent pickups, and have owned two Greco EGF-1200s with them.

-Dave-

 

[dalko]

Yes, that's a Dry pickup.



The modified Dry pickups I mentioned did indeed have the Z stamp…and also had short alnico V magnets. The original magnets were tested by the person who swapped 'em out for the longer ones. Despite claims of the Drys using alnico III I know of no evidence, at least as of early 2017 when I looked into it, that this is true. Also, every Dry pickup I know of that has been taken apart for repair has turned out to have been wax potted and wound with poly-coated wire rather than the sometimes claimed plain enamel. Which tells me these things don't make a big difference to a pickup's overall sound. A friend of mine has an ES-345 with a set of PAFs rewound with Formvar-coated wire. They still sound just like PAFs.

I do think the Drys are excellent pickups, and have owned two Greco EGF-1200s with them.

-Dave-

Do you have a picture of these pickups you are talking about?

Can you show us the back plate of the pickups, to check the S/N and the "Z" stamped?

 

[DThomasC]

[...] The original magnets were tested by the person who swapped 'em out for the longer ones. Despite claims of the Drys using alnico III I know of no evidence, at least as of early 2017 when I looked into it, that this is true. [...]

This is a bit of a veer, but how are you determining the alloy of a magnet from an old pickup?

 

[Quantum Strummer]

This is a bit of a veer, but how are you determining the alloy of a magnet from an old pickup?

I didn't do the analysis but I was told the method involved spectroscopy. There was a breakdown of the magnet composition by element and (if I remember right) percentage.

-Dave-

 

[Quantum Strummer]

Do you have a picture of these pickups you are talking about?

Can you show us the back plate of the pickups, to check the S/N and the "Z" stamped?

I don't have a photo of the modified Drys…they're currently in an Ibanez AM-50 hanging out in my storage unit. There's nothing at all unusual about them: six digit ID number with the second digit being a 1 (don't remember the others) and an ink-stamped Z. To show you the long magnets I'd have to take the pickup apart.

-Dave-

 

[dalko]

I don't have a photo of the modified Drys…they're currently in an Ibanez AM-50 hanging out in my storage unit. There's nothing at all unusual about them: six digit ID number with the second digit being a 1 (don't remember the others) and an ink-stamped Z. To show you the long magnets I'd have to take the pickup apart. ☺

-Dave-

Yeah.

You bought the magnets supposed to be "Dry-Z" as parts, or removed them yourself from a guitar?

How can you be sure that the short magnets that have been replaced are truly original?

Why someone would like to change Super 58 in an Ibanez AM50? They are so great pickups ...

No pictures, no evidence of anything, anyway. Only stories.

 

[kakerlak]

^This guy's serious about his Dry-Zs, lol

 

[dalko]

^This guy's serious about his Dry-Zs, lol

A set of these is actually more expensive than your entire Argus guitar, with your brazilian-like fretboard, and your Gotoh-like pickups ...

lol

 

[Quantum Strummer]

Yeah.

You bought the magnets supposed to be "Dry-Z" as parts, or removed them yourself from a guitar?

How can you be sure that the short magnets that have been replaced are truly original?

Why someone would like to change Super 58 in an Ibanez AM50? They are so great pickups ...

No pictures, no evidence of anything, anyway. Only stories.

Relax, dude. I did indeed buy the Drys as a set. I've bought all sorts of Maxon and FujiGen pickups in fact: Drys, U-1000s, U-2000s, Super '70s, Super 58s, Dry '82s. I don't share your reverence for them, though I definitely like 'em, so I mix & match depending on what I want to hear from a particular guitar (and find lacking in it as is). I'm about to swap a set of U-1000s taken from a Greco EG-420 into an Ibanez 2386 'cuz the neck Super '70 is a bit dark and the bridge Duncan JB (installed by the previous owner) is too thick. Same reason why I recently put lipstick tube pickups in a Strat (see the Lockdown Projects thread elsewhere here): experiment and find out what works…and what doesn't.

What evidence do you have that any of what I've just typed is true? Or that anything I've ever typed here is true? None, of course. I could be making it all up. I could be a bot posing as a human being. (So could you.) You can believe me or not…suit yourself.

-Dave-

 

[dalko]

Relax, dude. I did indeed buy the Drys as a set. I've bought all sorts of Maxon and FujiGen pickups in fact: Drys, U-1000s, U-2000s, Super '70s, Super 58s, Dry '82s. I don't share your reverence for them, though I definitely like 'em, so I mix & match depending on what I want to hear from a particular guitar (and find lacking in it as is). I'm about to swap a set of U-1000s taken from a Greco EG-420 into an Ibanez 2386 'cuz the neck Super '70 is a bit dark and the bridge Duncan JB (installed by the previous owner) is too thick. Same reason why I recently put lipstick tube pickups in a Strat (see the Lockdown Projects thread elsewhere here): experiment and find out what works…and what doesn't.

What evidence do you have that any of what I've just typed is true? Or that anything I've ever typed here is true? None, of course. I could be making it all up. I could be a bot posing as a human being. (So could you.) You can believe me or not…suit yourself.

-Dave-

I don't believe a word of what you say.