Old School F-40 (not jumbo) Info Please?

[jedzep]

Hey, Guild brethren.

About the only Guild I'd like to add is a Hoboken era F-40, but I see them seldom offered, pictured, and/or talked about. Are they pretty rare in the wild?

Thanks!

 

[ruedi]

I don't know anything, but I found this and think it's pretty cool:

 

[donnylang]

You just missed a ‘61 on Reverb. I’m embarrassed to say I didn’t even know about this model.

 

[jedzep]

Thanks, Donny. Funny, as it didn't show up on my Reverb feed.

 

[SFIV1967]

The first version was available from 1954 till 1963 only.

1954 catalog: Simple G headstock inlay.



1960 catalog: Chesterfield headstock inlays. (used since about 1957)



Nothing between 1963 and 1972. In 1972/73 this 16" version came out:



Ralf

 

[adorshki]

Hey, Guild brethren.

About the only Guild I'd like to add is a Hoboken era F-40, but I see them seldom offered, pictured, and/or talked about. Are they pretty rare in the wild?

Thanks!

From the number of internet vendor sightings over the years, i'd say yes.

You just missed a ‘61 on Reverb. I’m embarrassed to say I didn’t even know about this model.

It was replaced by the 'hog flatback F47 during your favorite era (mid-'60's, right?), then revived in '74-approx '83 when Gruhn came in with the F42 ('hog) and F44 (maple flatback). By '87 there was a 16" maple archback in the GF-30, and the forerunner of the entire "F-series", the F45ce, but those guitars were short-scale until late '94.. After that, the only way to get a 16"maple archback with longscale was in "ce" form.


So the model name itself lost a lot of recognition over the years, and when it was revived in Tacoma it was a flatback 'hog body, while the F47 offered rosewood and flatbacked maple. As of this morning, anyway.

 

[donnylang]

Yep and I was gonna say- I am very interested in the F47. I've never played one. Explains why I've never heard of it since I mostly scout 1965-72 Guilds.

 

[SFIV1967]

Yep and I was gonna say- I am very interested in the F47. I've never played one. Explains why I've never heard of it since I mostly scout 1965-72 Guilds.

They came out with the December 1 , 1963 pricelist:



1964 catalog:



Ralf

 

[jedzep]

Still, I'm looking older, Valencia/Hoboken with the rounded bottom, not pointed bridge.

How can this F-40 be brand new, and not from Oxnard?

Guild F-40 Valencia w/DTAR Grand Orchestra Natural NEW HARTFORD MADE LAST ONE! (004) | Reverb

Category: Traditional SeriesBody Style: Grand OrchestraTop: Solid Red SpruceBracing: Scalloped Red SpruceBack: Solid MahoganySides: Solid MahoganyScale Length: 25.5" (64.8 Cm)Neck: 3-Piece Mahogany/Walnut/MahoganyFretboard: Indian RosewoodFingerboard Radius: 12" Radius (305 Mm)No. of Frets: 20Pos...

reverb.com

 

[jedzep]

So...how is this 'brand new' and not from Oxnard?

Guild F-40 Valencia w/DTAR Grand Orchestra Natural NEW HARTFORD MADE LAST ONE! (004) | Reverb

Category: Traditional SeriesBody Style: Grand OrchestraTop: Solid Red SpruceBracing: Scalloped Red SpruceBack: Solid MahoganySides: Solid MahoganyScale Length: 25.5" (64.8 Cm)Neck: 3-Piece Mahogany/Walnut/MahoganyFretboard: Indian RosewoodFingerboard Radius: 12" Radius (305 Mm)No. of Frets: 20Pos...

reverb.com

 

[donnylang]

They came out with the December 1 , 1963 pricelist:



1964 catalog:



Ralf

This begs the question: Who exactly is the “bluegrass folk singer”?

I suppose it would be whoever wants a guitar of haunting tonal beauty, with the lusty resonance that characterizes the musical vigor of this specialized art form.

Hey I think that’s me!

 

[adorshki]

So...how is this 'brand new' and not from Oxnard?

Guild F-40 Valencia w/DTAR Grand Orchestra Natural NEW HARTFORD MADE LAST ONE! (004) | Reverb

Category: Traditional SeriesBody Style: Grand OrchestraTop: Solid Red SpruceBracing: Scalloped Red SpruceBack: Solid MahoganySides: Solid MahoganyScale Length: 25.5" (64.8 Cm)Neck: 3-Piece Mahogany/Walnut/MahoganyFretboard: Indian RosewoodFingerboard Radius: 12" Radius (305 Mm)No. of Frets: 20Pos...

reverb.com

It's entirely possible it is in fact "New Old Stock", never before sold, and may even qualify for warranty from Oxnard, IF Tundra is an authorized dealer.

BUT: there were some "B" stocks released in New Hartford's final inventory liquidation that don't qualify for warranty. Oxnard won't honor those, and I assume they got lists of those s/n's from Fender, since they did commit to honor warranties on New Hartfords.

BUT: New Hartford F40's were 'hog flatbacks. I think your only alternative to a true Hoboken F40 would be the Gruhn era GF30 which are also kinda scarce but have great reps.

 

[richardp69]

Don't be too quick to rule out the F 40's from the Westerly era. They are quite superb IMHO.. They don't come up often but you do see them from time to time.

 

[fronobulax]

How can this F-40 be brand new, and not from Oxnard?

"new" does not always refer to age. Sometimes it refers to whether the item had ever been sold at retail, or not. The term "new old stock" is sometimes used to clarify, but a New Hartford instrument that had never been sold at retail is "new".

 

[SFIV1967]

So...how is this 'brand new' and not from Oxnard?

Tunda Music were and still are an official Guild dealer and they bought a ton of Guitars from New Hartford in 2014 when the factory closed. Since they offered the guitars for very high prices and they are in Canada, there was not a lot of interest in them I guess. They had loads of Orpheum models also in the past for very high prices when they were sold out everywhere else. But some LTG members bought there anyway.
Also they have lots of Oxnard made guitars now.
So yes, those New Hartford made guitars are factory new, never sold before.

They even still have a GSR F-40 Cocobolo!

Guild GSR F-40 Cocobolo - Natural NEW HARTFORD USA MADE - Tundra Music INC Vintage Guitars Store & More Toronto & Whitby

www.tundramusic.com

And those as well, quite a lot of New Hartford made guitars! For very high prices...

Tundra Music INC Vintage Guitars Store & More Toronto & Whitby

Toronto Canada's best guitar store. Lowest Price Guaranteed for new, Ibanez, PRS, Guild, Marshall, Orange and more... We offer above industry standard service and repairs. Get your new, used, rare & Vintage guitars from our shop in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, specializing in the repair...

www.tundramusic.com

Ralf

 

[jedzep]

A while back, I bought one of the first Oxnard M-40's (F-20) off the line from Tundra, a nice enough guitar. The hassle occurred when it was held up at customs until I could get the agents to accept that it was USA made, even though it said Guild USA all over the box. A kindly agent released it late on a Fri of Labor Day weekend, which if he hadn't, would have accrued 3 days of extra storage cost.

 

[HeyMikey]

I also believe Tundra will haggle on price for items that have been sitting around.

 

[Russell Letson]

I had a '59 F-40 exactly like the one in the (pretty annoying) Norm's video and eventually traded it off because I didn't at all like its voice. To be fair, the video example sounds OK fingerpicked, but Mark A's flatpicking makes it sound thin and harsh and I'd still pass on it today. On the other hand, I still have a '65 D-40 and a '59 M-30 that I can't seem to part with, so it's not the Hoboken sound that bothers me, it's the particular guitars.

And FWIW, I also sold on a 1970 F-47 that sounded constricted but would have gladly bought and kept a Tacoma-era F-47M I played in a Washington State store.

 

[jedzep]

I somewhat agree, Russ. Glad you pointed out that thin, harsh tone, which certainly could involve recording and string choice/age variables. Nevertheless, it made me more content to just appreciate my '63 F30, and not be so prone to think an F40 would have the same tone, just slightly 'bigger'.

Your M30 is one of my bucket listers, but for the narrow string spacing. Still, if you ever think of parting with it, please get hold of me.

 

[Andrew79]

I'm glad the subject of F-40s came up.

A few months back a friend of mine (and fellow LTG'r) lent me his 1954 (?) F-40. It's the oldest Guild I've ever played. It took a while to open up after not being played for while but sounded great when it did. The thing I noticed was the size of the neck - like a baseball bat, especially compared to modern Guilds. Interested to know if this shape was standard on Guilds at the time.

I've attached some images.

My friend sadly passed away a couple of months back so I feel very fortunate I was able to share his appreciation of this wonderful guitar while he was still with us. He told me he picked it up for next to nothing in an antique store in Washington state. It was in terrible condition apparently and had obviously never been cleaned.

Thanks

Andrew