NS M75 Aristocrat?

swiveltung said:
But the non back bound ones are milled out of a big chunk of wood right? While the double bound are actually built like an acoustic guitar or an ES330 etc...?
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No, they're not, they have a laminated spruce top, laminated sides AFAIK, and an acoustic-guitar-like flat solid mahogany back.
 
swiveltung said:
But the non back bound ones are milled out of a big chunk of wood right? While the double bound are actually built like an acoustic guitar or an ES330 etc...?
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The M-75 (as Walter says) is built like a full-size fully hollow archtop. The ES-330 is not -- it has a kerfed center section (like a 335 with the kerfing, but without the solid block), which makes it stiffer. It's hard to describe, but you can look up a picture.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how acoustically responsive an M-75 is.
 
Smiert Spionam said:
The M-75 (as Walter says) is built like a full-size fully hollow archtop. The ES-330 is not -- it has a kerfed center section (like a 335 with the kerfing, but without the solid block), which makes it stiffer. It's hard to describe, but you can look up a picture.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how acoustically responsive an M-75 is.
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I'm confused. Are you saying the non double bound M-75 are built like an acoustic from separate top, back and sides, but the back just glued on and rounded off without binding on the back?
My 69 M-75 Bluesbird full hollow and one I had later was like this '69 (only black):
Guild-Bluesbird-M-75-1969-Cherry-Sunburst-big.webp
 
swiveltung said:
Are you saying the non double bound M-75 are built like an acoustic from separate top, back and sides, but the back just glued on and rounded off without binding on the back?
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Yes, on the vintage hollow M75s (Aristocrats and a Bluesbirds). Some of the newer Aristocrats are chambered and have access panels on the rear. The original Aristocrats are fully hollow and built like an acoustic with only binding on the top. These had spruce laminated arched tops and mahogany laminated sides and solid mahogany flat backs. There were some Aristocrats from the early 1960’s that had mahogany tops and a cherry finish. When the M75 was reintroduced in 1967 this same formula was used with spruce tops and mahogany sides and back. When they switched to maple laminated bodies (top, sides and back) they started binding the backs.
 
AndiJ said:
Yes, I'm talking the Newark series made in Korea. Very difficult to find any meaningful video reviews on it.

I read @GAD 's great write up on the gold top and that helped a lot. But I could find only one video with an acoustic sample. Difficult to judge in a video but it seems less resonant than a Casino. He compared it to a Guild solid body and the M75 was much more resonant. So I guess it's about what I would have thought. Maybe slightly more resonant than my Starfires when unplugged. But not as resonant as a Casino, which of course has f holes.

For fret access I'm interested in comparing it to a standard Casino, which is a 16th fret joint. These are vintage spec or modern MIC spec. In between MIK ones had 17th fret joints and at some point in the 60s there were 19th fret joints like a 335. I have the feeling the M75 will be slightly better than a 16th fret Casino. As I think a 17th fret Casino is probably not much worse than a Starfire with the 18th fret joint.

I have heard the modern Franz leave somehow bit to be desired. Apparently the neck pickup is too high and needs the rout modified to lower it. But both are not very good it seems. But it seems to be a standard soapbar size. So probably many options to replace it if I don't like it. So I'm not really bothered.

The neck is another hard to come by info. I would have thought it would be similar to my 2015 MIK SFIV. Also based on GAD's write up. But I heard somebody complaining the M75 neck is too thin. I know this is subjective, but I would never call is too thin. Even if it's not as thick as my Fender era Westerly SFV. Maybe the changed the neck during production.
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I did this video comparing my 58 to a Newark
The 58 is correctly for sale 4500

 
billydlight said:
I did this video comparing my 58 to a Newark
The 58 is correctly for sale 4500

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Nice! Good comparison :)

Does that mean the NS is so good that it made the vintage M75 redundant? Or the ergonomics on the NS is a just a better fit to you?
 
But there has not been any new updates yet. I would still like o get a M75 NS. But every seller I ask gives me a different set of measurements for the neck. I know this is probably more user error than only inconsistency on Guild's part. But for that reason I'm waiting for one to show up within driving distance. So I could test it myself. But that might take a while.

In the meantime, I came across a nice late 90s SFII. I wasn't really looking for one. But it looks really nice and the price is good. It being late 90s probably has a similar neck to my late 90s SFV right? If I'm not wrong all of them were hollow? I seem to remember a version of them being actually semi-hollow. Maybe the NS? Or maybe the Dearmond. Or maybe I'm just thinking of the ES135. But probably much lighter than my SFV.

But I started my interest on the M75 as an alternative to a Casino. Maybe a SFII could also be one? I know it's humbuckers. But apart from that, I would think the P90 version of the SFII would sound pretty much like a Casino being a thin hollow? I think it's called a SF 90?

Fret access though is probably much worse than the Casino. But is it worse than on the M75?
 
AndiJ said:
But there has not been any new updates yet. I would still like o get a M75 NS. But every seller I ask gives me a different set of measurements for the neck. I know this is probably more user error than only inconsistency on Guild's part. But for that reason I'm waiting for one to show up within driving distance. So I could test it myself. But that might take a while.
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Interesting point. Guild's original neck variations in Westerly were due to every single neck gettin final shaping by hand. Stopped hearing about it when they went 100% NC machining in NH.

Be surprised if they were still hand-finishing necks offshore though. Suspect it'd be cheaper to NC machine all of 'em from a pure labor standpoint. Maybe they haven't made the buy-in investment?

Wonder if Ralf (@ SFIV1967) knows?

AndiJ said:
In the meantime, I came across a nice late 90s SFII. I wasn't really looking for one. But it looks really nice and the price is good. It being late 90s probably has a similar neck to my late 90s SFV right? If I'm not wrong all of them were hollow? I seem to remember a version of them being actually semi-hollow.
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Each body, single and double-cut, came in full-hollow and "through-plank" ("semi-hollow") versions, thus the original I-IV versions.**(Actually i Goofed. See Smiert Spionam's recap below for the accurate count)
AndiJ said:
Maybe the NS? Or maybe the Dearmond. Or maybe I'm just thinking of the ES135. But probably much lighter than my SFV.

But I started my interest on the M75 as an alternative to a Casino. Maybe a SFII could also be one? I know it's humbuckers. But apart from that, I would think the P90 version of the SFII would sound pretty much like a Casino being a thin hollow? I think it's called a SF 90?
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Don't recall seeing an "SF-90" as a model, only the Bluesbird based Blues 90.
 
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adorshki said:
Each body, single and double-cut, came in full-hollow and "through-plank" ("semi-hollow") versions, thus the original I-IV versions
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That’s incorrect. Single-cutaway SF I, II, & IIIs are all fully hollow, and the double-cutaway SF IV, V, & VI are semis. The only exception that comes to mind is the DeArmonf Starfire Special, which looks like a SF III, but with a tension bar Bigsby. It is semi-hollow, and HEAVY.
 
Smiert Spionam said:
That’s incorrect. Single-cutaway SF I, II, & IIIs are all fully hollow, and the double-cutaway SF IV, V, & VI are semis. The only exception that comes to mind is the DeArmonf Starfire Special, which looks like a SF III, but with a tension bar Bigsby. It is semi-hollow, and HEAVY.
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Thanks. Obviously my memory decayed.
 
adorshki said:
Interesting point. Guild's original neck variations in Westerly were due to every single neck gettin final shaping by hand. Stopped hearing about it when they went 100% NC machining in NH.

Be surprised if they were still hand-finishing necks offshore though. Suspect it'd be cheaper to NC machine all of 'em from a pure labor standpoint. Maybe they haven't made the buy-in investment?

Wonder if Ralf (@ SFIV1967) knows?


Each body, single and double-cut, came in full-hollow and "through-plank" ("semi-hollow") versions, thus the original I-IV versions.**(Actually i Goofed. See Smiert Spionam's recap below for the accurate count)

Don't recall seeing an "SF-90" as a model, only the Bluesbird based Blues 90.
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When I said If I'm not wrong all of them were hollow? I seem to remember a version of them being actually semi-hollow, I meant the SFII. ;)

I have a IV and a V and yeah, they are semi-hollow.

I agree and would also have thought the NS necks would be CNC'ed. My suspicion was that Guild changed the neck on the more recently made guitars, compared to the early ones. But I don't have enough consistent data to back that up. The data I was able to gather is all over the place.

There was actually a SF 90. It was actually called SFIII-90 and it had P-90s:

https://www.gad.net/Blog/2016/09/07/2002-guild-starfire-iii-90/

When in doubt, always check the "online Guild bible" :) Specially if the hard copy bible is not accessible. I hope to one day get my hands on a copy though. The more I learn about Guild, the more I fall in love.

But back the the SFIII 90, is that the perfect Casino or what!? I mean, it's a hollow, thin guitar with P90s. And it's a Guild! Apart from fret access, I doubt you would be giving up anything else?

Plus, the chances of a vintage Casino at this point for any reasonable price is next to none. Even the Japanese ones are selling for more than vintage SFIIs. I would rather have a US Guild over any of the non Kalamazoo Casinos. But maybe that is just me.

The only reason I never bought any of the SFII and SFIIIs I have come across for ridiculous low prices, compared to vintage or Japanese Casinos and ES-135s, is that if the high fret access is any reference on my ES-175, it will be a bit frustrating. I know the ES-175 despite having identical shape is much thicker. But even a Les Paul kind of drags on high fret access. But I'm trying to put myself on the mindset that, not all guitars have to be a Lead weapon. Hard though as I only play lead. Maximum I do is throw rhythm parts in there along with the lead, sometimes.
 
Smiert Spionam said:
That’s incorrect. Single-cutaway SF I, II, & IIIs are all fully hollow, and the double-cutaway SF IV, V, & VI are semis. The only exception that comes to mind is the DeArmonf Starfire Special, which looks like a SF III, but with a tension bar Bigsby. It is semi-hollow, and HEAVY.
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Ah, so that was it then. The Dearmond Special. I had the feeling there was a single cut SF which looked like the hollow one but was a semi.
 
AndiJ said:
When I said If I'm not wrong all of them were hollow? I seem to remember a version of them being actually semi-hollow, I meant the SFII. ;)
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That's what I thought...
AndiJ said:
There was actually a SF 90. It was actually called SFIII-90 and it had P-90s:

https://www.gad.net/Blog/2016/09/07/2002-guild-starfire-iii-90/
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Ah, "SFIII-90" might have rung a bell. Or maybe not, but the "III" does ring a bell...
AndiJ said:
When in doubt, always check the "online Guild bible" :) Specially if the hard copy bible is not accessible. I hope to one day get my hands on a copy though. The more I learn about Guild, the more I fall in love.
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Where do you think I pull all those catalog and price page pics from? But it helps if you know what era you're looking for. And "the bible" doesn't cover anything past '78 or a few other things that occasionally come up, like bracing...of course Guild wasn't too forthcoming themselves in that regard until the Fender era.
AndiJ said:
But back the the SFIII 90, is that the perfect Casino or what!? I mean, it's a hollow, thin guitar with P90s. And it's a Guild! Apart from fret access, I doubt you would be giving up anything else?
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As much as like the "blonde" look, I wouldn't want to sand my SF's finish just to get it.
2fafd01a012271d3186ccbc73e0673d5.jpg

AndiJ said:
But I'm trying to put myself on the mindset that, not all guitars have to be a Lead weapon. Hard though as I only play lead. Maximum I do is throw rhythm parts in there along with the lead, sometimes.
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(y)
 
swiveltung said:
But the non back bound ones are milled out of a big chunk of wood right? While the double bound are actually built like an acoustic guitar or an ES330 etc...?
Click to expand...
Here is a look into my 1956 Aristocrat (I had to remove the harness at one point, so a good view through the output socket hole):

1755163583047.png

1755163794604.png

The bars you see on top are where the Franz Pickups are mounted on:

1755163970398.png

1755163694668.png

Ralf
 
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