Neck Block Stamp or Label??

[dapmdave]

So, what exactly is the deal on these dating techniques? I did a bit of a search and found that the neck block stamp is the day the neck was made. So what is the relationship between the neck date and the serial number date?

On my newly acquired JF-30, the s/n of AJ301060 seems to date to 1996. (yeah, we know there are issues with the numbers) But the neck block date is Nov 10 1999. So why three years difference?

And, does anybody know when they started stamping the neck blocks?

Dave

 

[jazzmang]

So, what exactly is the deal on these dating techniques? I did a bit of a search and found that the neck block stamp is the day the neck was made. So what is the relationship between the neck date and the serial number date?

On my newly acquired JF-30, the s/n of AJ301060 seems to date to 1996. (yeah, we know there are issues with the numbers) But the neck block date is Nov 10 1999. So why three years difference?

And, does anybody know when they started stamping the neck blocks?

Dave

That just further reinforces how inaccurate the Guild website's serial number database is. I'd follow the neckblock stamp. It was likely made within a few months after that.

 

[adorshki]

So, what exactly is the deal on these dating techniques? I did a bit of a search and found that the neck block stamp is the day the neck was made. So what is the relationship between the neck date and the serial number date?
And, does anybody know when they started stamping the neck blocks?
Dave

Just to clarify, I think it's actually when the whole body was completed and ready for finishing, and other details like tuners, etc. That's why the delay between stamp date and s/n date.
Bet Hans knows when they started, but it might be one of those details he wants to save for Vol. 2. :wink:

 

[twocorgis]

That just further reinforces how inaccurate the Guild website's serial number database is. I'd follow the neckblock stamp. It was likely made within a few months after that.

That would be my best guess. As for when they started doing it, my '96 has a date stamp on the neckblock, but my '85 doesn't.

 

[dapmdave]

That just further reinforces how inaccurate the Guild website's serial number database is. I'd follow the neckblock stamp. It was likely made within a few months after that.

That would be my best guess. As for when they started doing it, my '96 has a date stamp on the neckblock, but my '85 doesn't.

My 87's both have it. Maybe it came in with the Gruhn era.

Dave

 

[davismanLV]

My D65S is neck stamped JUN 2 1994, and I bought it new from Guitar Center later that very same year. But it was a special run for Guitar Center, so that was when GC was actually SELLING Guilds. So it's doubtful that those 20 guitars sat around for very long. Maybe this is the exception rather than the rule. Not sure. Just throwing that in..... Tom in Vegas

 

[twocorgis]

That just further reinforces how inaccurate the Guild website's serial number database is. I'd follow the neckblock stamp. It was likely made within a few months after that.

That would be my best guess. As for when they started doing it, my '96 has a date stamp on the neckblock, but my '85 doesn't.

My 87's both have it. Maybe it came in with the Gruhn era.

Dave

That's cool. We didn't even need Hans for that. :lol:

 

[Ross]

My 87's both have it. Maybe it came in with the Gruhn era.
Dave

My '83 has a stamp.

 

[dapmdave]

My 87's both have it. Maybe it came in with the Gruhn era.
Dave

My '83 has a stamp.

So much for the Gruhn theory. Maybe Hans will step in and enlighten us.

Dave

 

[RussB]

My '80 D35 has a neck block stamp, and a stamp on one of the flat braces on the top. The ser # is proper as well, making it a 1980.

My '92 F30ce has a stamp only on the neck block

 

[fronobulax]

That just further reinforces how inaccurate the Guild website's serial number database is. I'd follow the neckblock stamp. It was likely made within a few months after that.

Not necessarily. Hans has patiently explained that Guilds did not leave the factory in serial number order and that there were many circumstances where the final serial number was assigned to a part that was not assembled into a guitar until years later. There's even a recent thread where Hans explains how and why a particular instrument had "date differences" of a couple of years.

What we have to remember when dealing with dates and Guild serial numbers is that, in spite of what people say and believe, all the dating chart can tell us is when Guild assigned a serial number to a part. It says nothing about when the un-numbered parts were made or when the final guitar was assembled, although there is often a correlation when the model being considered was produced during a time of high demand.

The above point would still be true even if there were accurate listings of Guild serial numbers, which of course, there are not.

I wonder whether this obsession with serial numbers and dates of manufacture (and I plead guilty, too) is behind serial number conventions by manufacturers where the serial number is not assigned until final assembly and the number itself encodes date information?

 

[jte]

For most of guitar making history, serial numbers were never intended to date an instrument. They were for various inventory and/or warranty purposes. So companies would assign a serial number at whatever point they deemed it made sense to track those items. Hence Fender's use of serial number plates that could be taken from the back of the bin or the front giving widely different dates for sequential serial numbers, Gibson reusing serial numbers, and Guild having them sometimes assigned in random fashion.

The neck date according to my recollection of discussions I had with Hans (maybe 10 years ago?) is the date the block was done, but has nothing to do with when that neck was mounted on a body. Given where the date stamp is on my '95 A-50 (serial #3), it wasn't put on there after the neck was put on the body unless the person with the stamp had very slim arms and small hands.

John

PS- this thread made me go look at my A-50, and I didn't find any dates anywhere other than August 1995, but I did find a big honkin' dust bunny inside her!!!

j

 

[dapmdave]

For most of guitar making history, serial numbers were never intended to date an instrument. They were for various inventory and/or warranty purposes. So companies would assign a serial number at whatever point they deemed it made sense to track those items. Hence Fender's use of serial number plates that could be taken from the back of the bin or the front giving widely different dates for sequential serial numbers, Gibson reusing serial numbers, and Guild having them sometimes assigned in random fashion.

The neck date according to my recollection of discussions I had with Hans (maybe 10 years ago?) is the date the block was done, but has nothing to do with when that neck was mounted on a body. Given where the date stamp is on my '95 A-50 (serial #3), it wasn't put on there after the neck was put on the body unless the person with the stamp had very slim arms and small hands.

John

PS- this thread made me go look at my A-50, and I didn't find any dates anywhere other than August 1995, but I did find a big honkin' dust bunny inside her!!!

j

Easter bunny, perhaps?

I was going to say something similar regarding the difficulty of stamping that date on the side of the neck block, through the soundhole. Wouldn't make sense, would it?

Dave

 

[hansmoust]

So, what exactly is the deal on these dating techniques? I did a bit of a search and found that the neck block stamp is the day the neck was made.

Hello Dave,

There seems to be some misunderstanding about how and when the ink-stamped dates on the neck block were applied.

First of all, the ink stamped date on the neck block is not the date that the neck was made but the date that the rim was completed in the 'body shop'. So it’s just the date for the rim without a top or a back. The neck usually has a date too, but it can no longer be seen once the neck is attached to the body.

So what is the relationship between the neck date and the serial number date?

There is no relation between the neckblock date and the serial number date other than the sequence in which they were applied. The serial number was applied right before the guitar was finished (as in lacquered) and the date and the serial number were registered in the ledger.
Consequently the date that the serial number was applied is always later than the neckblock date. Usually the time between the neckblock date and the date that the serial number is stamped into the peghead is something like a couple of months, but it can be longer depending on the popularity of the model during that particular period.

On my newly acquired JF-30, the s/n of AJ301060 seems to date to 1996. (yeah, we know there are issues with the numbers) But the neck block date is Nov 10 1999. So why three years difference?

In this case the serial number seems to be earlier than the neckblock date, which would be impossible as I already explained.

This is a special situation, that didn't happen a lot and I would not have known about it if I had not gone through every page of the ledgers that were meticulously kept by the foremen of the ‘finishing dept.’ , i.e. Fred Augusto and later Joe Fusaro.

It’s a little too much to explain what they really needed to do to keep track of the various serial number pre-fixes that were used for the different models, but I can explain what happened with Dave’s JF-30.

During 1999, Joe Fusaro wrote up the numbers he had stamped on a group of JF-30s that he was about to finish and the last number for that day, which was Jan. 26, 1999, was ser. # AJ302733.

Two weeks later ( Feb. 9, 1999) he came back to that page in the ledger, to continue the numbering for a new group of JF-30s that he was going to finish. Instead of continuing with ser. # AJ302734, he misread and continued with #AJ300734, which is 2000 numbers lower. Since these were just numbers that were not used for any official bookkeeping, nobody noticed and Joe just continued with the lower numbers during the period following. That means that there are duplicate serial numbers for all the JF-30s with a number higher than # AJ300733 up till where they ended production in August 2001.
So, if you have a JF-30 with a serial number higher than #AJ300733, you really need to check the neck block date if you want to know what year it was made. There are other small details by which you can date the guitars, but it would be too much for this thread to go into that.


Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[dapmdave]

Thank you, Hans. What a fascinating detail. The 3-year discrepancy was puzzling.

Whatever the situation is regarding numbers or dates, this JF-30 is awesome. I'm kind of hurting this week from some surgery I had on Monday, but I've been playin' through the pain because it just sounds so good.

Dave

 

[GAD]

And that's why Hans is the only serial number information source I trust. Outstanding post!

 

[Willy]

Fascinating stuff, thank you for the great information!

 

[poser]

Questions about the dates come up so often, we all should bookmark this thread. I am in awe of how much Hans has learned about Guilds.

 

[fronobulax]

I am in awe of how much Hans has learned about Guilds.

No surprise. After all, he wrote the Book.

:wink: :lol: :lol:

 

[Guildguy1965]

My 1978 D-25C has an ink stamp on underside of top near sound hole and my 1992 D4-HR has the stamp at neck block. I know this is an old thread but I was looking around for an ink stamp conversation due to finding a 90’s era JF-4HG that does not have a ink date stamp which I thought as odd or rare. I know when all else fails ask Hans.