Just got a T-100D... questions for the experts

[AlohaJoe]

I hate to sound like the Grinch here, but I have to respectfully disagree with those who would immobilize the floating bridge on an archtop. I may be coming from a slightly different place here, but I have some vintage carved archtop guitars and the idea of permanently fixing the bridge is worse than putting Abba stickers on the headstock. :lol: Archtop guitars have floating bridges for a reason, just like other arched-top instruments, ie: violins, violas, cellos and upright basses. Intonation is affected by the aging of the instrument, as well as changes in humidity, heat and other factors, especially in finer carved instruments, so "pinning" (or screwing) the bridge feet to the top (or bracing) defeats the purpose and diminishes the value of the instrument, although I grant that it may be fairly harmless on a thin-bodied laminate.

Non-invasive measures, like balloon-rubber, sandpaper (?) or whatever may help some if your playing style involves a lot of string bending, but if you want a fixed bridge, why not buy a guitar with a fixed bridge?

 

[MichaelK]

I'm not clear at all, don't know what I'm missing, Michael. Please explain?

Well, just try them both. Try intonating a fixed bridge with adjustable saddles vs. a moveable bridge.

 

[Walter Broes]

Glad you get my point, but I'm missing yours... anyone who wants to looks it over closely isn't worthy to own it?

My point is mostly that the "damage" caused by immobilizing the bridge is invisible if/when the guitar is set up to play, and that having a tiny little bit of finish blurring in that spot to make a guitar playable and usable is infinitely more desirable than having "a 100% original collectible" that won't stay in tune two songs into a set. To me, anyways.

And what I was getting at in my post is that IF I ever had to sell any of my Guilds, I'd be much happier passing it on to someone who's interested in how it plays and sounds, more than what the 1/2 square centimeter under those bridge feet looks like.

 

[MichaelK]

I hate to sound like the Grinch here, but I have to respectfully disagree with those who would immobilize the floating bridge on an archtop...

Archtop guitars have floating bridges for a reason, just like other arched-top instruments, ie: violins, violas, cellos and upright basses. Intonation is affected by the aging of the instrument, as well as changes in humidity, heat and other factors, especially in finer carved instruments, so "pinning" (or screwing) the bridge feet to the top (or bracing) defeats the purpose and diminishes the value of the instrument, although I grant that it may be fairly harmless on a thin-bodied laminate.

Non-invasive measures, like balloon-rubber, sandpaper (?) or whatever may help some if your playing style involves a lot of string bending, but if you want a fixed bridge, why not buy a guitar with a fixed bridge?

Although I've owned an archtop only one week, my thoughts exactly.

 

[MichaelK]

My point is mostly that the "damage" caused by immobilizing the bridge is invisible if/when the guitar is set up to play, and that having a tiny little bit of finish blurring in that spot to make a guitar playable and usable is infinitely more desirable than having "a 100% original collectible" that won't stay in tune two songs into a set. To me, anyways.

Hey, it's your guitar and if that's what you prefer, who can argue?

 

[Walter Broes]

I think most people who use their archtops every week wouldn't argue - putting something under that bridge to keep it in place is a time honored tradition with archtop players of any stripe, ask around, play yours with the bridge completely floating for a while,.....

 

[dean]

Because I do some bending, I always try to set up my floating bridge guitars so the bridge doesn't slide. Over the years, I have found that if I attach a couple strips of 320 grit sandpaper to the bottom of the bridge feet with double-stick tape, the bridge stays in place. The adhesive and sandpaper can be removed easily, and any marks on the top of the guitar are minimal and can be readily rubbed out.

Dean

 

[john_kidder]

I'm not clear at all, don't know what I'm missing, Michael. Please explain?

Well, just try them both. Try intonating a fixed bridge with adjustable saddles vs. a moveable bridge.

Ahhh, now I get it. I somehow thought you were talking about flattops, and I was way off the mark.

Electric guitars - of course - intonating my Nightbird's a snap. Pardon what must have seemd like a quesstion even more ignorant than I actually am (and that's pretty ignnorant).

 

[teleharmonium]

I think most people who use their archtops every week wouldn't argue - putting something under that bridge to keep it in place is a time honored tradition with archtop players of any stripe, ask around, play yours with the bridge completely floating for a while,.....

I have to disagree with that as a generalization. I have 4 archtops with floating bridges, one of which has a Bigsby, none of them have anything under the bridge, nor have I ever had a bridge move on me while playing. I have only had that experience on recently built guitars with thick poly finishes. I know it's considered acceptable or necessary in rock circles to pin or otherwise do something to keep the bridge from moving, but I've never heard of a jazz player doing this, nor heard one that needed to. I use .011 flatwounds and a moderate right hand touch generally, but the afro beat band I play in involves a lot of Jimmy Nolen style fast single note riffs where I play with more force; I've used an old Premier Bantam with that band, which has a floating bridge, with no problems.

I think it's a lot less likely to be an issue if the guitar and bridge are old and the guitar has a nitrocellulose finish. If anything, I tend to point the finger at poly finishes, they are usually thick and very slippery and they don't sink into the wood over time at the rate that nitro finishes do.

 

[Walter Broes]

Nitro finishes on my Hoboken Guilds Teleharmonium, and 11 roundwounds, one has 12 flatwounds right now. Every archtop player I know (and while they're almost all from the Rootsrock/blues/Rockabilly side of things like myself, there's quite a few of them) does something to their guitar bridges to stop them from sliding around.

Funny this thread goes from the OP's "hey, these bridges are loose!?!!" to the implication I'm needlessly damaging my guitars. :lol:

 

[teleharmonium]

Nitro finishes on my Hoboken Guilds Teleharmonium, and 11 roundwounds, one has 12 flatwounds right now. Every archtop player I know (and while they're almost all from the Rootsrock/blues/Rockabilly side of things like myself, there's quite a few of them) does something to their guitar bridges to stop them from sliding around.

Funny this thread goes from the OP's "hey, these bridges are loose!?!!" to the implication I'm needlessly damaging my guitars. :lol:

I'm not criticizing you Walter, I'm sure if you did it, it was warranted in your situation. I think it comes down to playing style and musical style. I don't personally know any roots rock players that use archtops, I'm not into that music in the present tense, but like I said it is a common thing in that field.

Jazz players, however, don't do it in my experience. Can you imagine Johnny Smith, who was so militant about the D'angelico method of having a wood block in the area that would become the cutout in an archtop, that he got mad at Guild for not doing it (...because it's going to be the cutout !), screwing down his floating bridge, or gluing it or putting rubber under it ?

 

[Walter Broes]

Well, I have been surprised at times at the crude way some people go about "pinning" their bridges, and the number of vintage archtops you encounter with a glued-down bridge. (I use the sandpaper or thin double stick tape methods myself) First guy that told me about using violin resin actually wàs a Jazzer, a guitar teacher I used to have.

Chet Atkins had little nails (with the heads ground off) sticking up out of his Country Gentleman's top/braces that fit into little indentations in the underside of the guitar's bridge base, Brian Setzer tapes his bridges down on his Gretsch 6120's, and Dave Gonzalez's old X500 had two small wood screws through the bridge base, into the guitar's parallel braces, etc. And we're not talking about acoustic L5's, or vintage violins - but laminated electric guitars.

 

[AlohaJoe]

Just to be clear, I wasn't criticizing either. I just hate to see someone make changes to an instrument that can't be undone, although as Walter points out, we're talking about laminated electrics here. With frequent string bends (less common in jazz) I can certainly see the annoyance of a bridge that moves.
Maybe you should send the T-100D to me for a close examination. :lol:

 

[MichaelK]

Funny this thread goes from the OP's "hey, these bridges are loose!?!!" to the implication I'm needlessly damaging my guitars.

I know that ain't coming from me.

I believe the only thing I said about what you do with your guitars was, "they're your guitars, who can argue?" or words to that effect.

 

[billydlight]

I screw mine down, or go with the sand paper method. But mostly screwed.

 

[Default]

One thing to think about, particularly if you have one of those aluminum base Bigsby bridges, is the chance the finish will be damaged by the base. My old girl has the finish chopped through by the bass moving. If it were taped down, that probably wouldn't have happened, but she has a pretty shallow neck angle and light strings. Of course, she's been through ever bar in Philly and South Jersey, so the finish is pretty bad anyway.

 

[walrus]

This is actually an interesting topic. I don't secure my X-50 adjustable bridge at all, and I change the strings one at a time. But except for the occasional aggressive rock-out practice session, I am not really beating on it too much.

The point about "how you play" making a difference is a good one. I don't think I'm playing it "hard enough" to move the bridge. I play it *a lot*, but not that aggressively.

And by the way, whatever anyone does to their guitar doesn't usually bother me - as long as they are being played! If securing the bridge makes it more playable, do it!

walrus

 

[Brad Little]

I had a T-100 D for several years in the '70s. Nice guitar. As to the moveable bridge, as others have said, it's the norm for archtops. When I wanted to clean/oil the fingerboard, I used masking tape to mark the bridge position so that when I replaced it there was usually very llittle needed to intonate it correctly.
Good luck with it.
Brad

 

[MichaelK]

I feel that anything a player does to his own instrument to adapt it to his needs is the "right" thing to do, whether anyone else has done it or not, or whether collectors like it or not.

What makes me sad is seeing a beautiful instrument treated as museum piece and never played.