JS-II (1973) bridge and action

[oscarwao]

Hello, long-time lurker here, first post. I recently purchased an old JS-II from reverb.com (this one: https://reverb.com/item/36928623-guild-js-ii-walnut-electric-bass-guitar-w-original-hard-case-1973) and wanted to see what experience other folks have had with this bass regarding the bridge, action and overall settings. I set up my own guitars and usually prefer what can be called low action on my basses. I usually shoot for about 5/64 at the 12th fret using .100 to .045 with very little relief, when possible.

The bridge height is currently as low as possible which means there is some visible space between the very front tip of the bridge plate and the wood. With the way things are set up right now, the action is 1/8" with no way to get it lower. The relief isn't to my liking either but I may need to make the compromise there. I have made an appointment to have a pro tech look at it but wanted to see if other owners of this bass here been able to get the action lower than what I'm describing here.

Also, has anyone been able to get the bridge to sit flush on the wood by removing what look like plates underneath? Thanks for reading.

 

[fronobulax]

Check https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/index.php?threads/js-2-bass-bridge-saddle-scale-length-strings.205154/ some of what you ask was discussed and there are pictures.

I don't measure so can't tell you what my action is set at.

I figure the plate must be there for a reason known to smarter people than me, so I never thought about removing it.
If you can find a source, cutting down saddles might help lower action.

Oh, and welcome.

 

[oscarwao]

@fronobulax thanks for the reply and greetings!

 

[oscarwao]

Has anyone here sanded down the wood saddles to accommodate a lower action? Not even sure that's a possibility yet since I haven't taken apart the bridge. I'm having a hard time deciphering whether what I'm seeing are actually problems or the norm for this guitar.

 

[Guildedagain]

The link doesn't work, doesn't show the listing.

Don't sand the saddles, yet.

Something I noticed about my JS-2 was that the neck can bow just from string tension.

Go to lighter strings, tune down?

I have a set of D'addario Chromes on it, and the action is decent.

I've never turned a truss rod nut any harder that I have on this thing. Weak neck prone to bowing. I'd almost consider having the neck heated and straightened if it could be done, but won't bother. How tight is your truss rod?

My action is close to 1/8" on each side, from top of 12th fret to bottom of strings.

I imagine going to roundwound strings would lower the action as they have less tension, and quite possibly TI Jazz Flats would too as they have very low tension.

 

[fronobulax]

Has anyone here sanded down the wood saddles to accommodate a lower action? Not even sure that's a possibility yet since I haven't taken apart the bridge. I'm having a hard time deciphering whether what I'm seeing are actually problems or the norm for this guitar.

I got what many people consider a low action just by adjusting what I could. Don't know whether that means you have not figured something out yet or whether you like things lower than I do.

I haven't lowered saddles. I did install a set of saddles that were taller than factory, on another bass, and that raised the action Maybe the opposite isn't as true as I expect? I will note that the "paddle" that holds the saddle is going to limit how low the saddle can go..

Lots of folks can't figure out this bridge and end up replacing it with something they can understand. Quan's Badass was the choice back in the '70's.

Perhaps you might step back and see if there are any other concerns besides that you can't get the low action you would like? Perhaps you are asking for something that is out of design spec?

 

[oscarwao]

@Guildedagain thanks for the note. That's new, reverb usually shows sold/ended listings without needing to log in. Not sure why it's hiding that particular one. I have a set of TI flats coming in the next few days so hopefully that would help. I ended up getting the neck pretty straight as it turns out and I generally tune all of my instruments down 1/2 step too.

@fronobulax you may be right as I may be looking to do something that could be out of spec for this instrument. In the end, I decided it's a keeper either way. I can play it as-is. Since this is my first short scale bass outside of Bass VI-type instruments, I wanted to check with others that have experience with the instrument. I'm attaching some photos of it as well.

 

[hieronymous]

@Guildedagain thanks for the note. That's new, reverb usually shows sold/ended listings without needing to log in. Not sure why it's hiding that particular one. I have a set of TI flats coming in the next few days so hopefully that would help. I ended up getting the neck pretty straight as it turns out and I generally tune all of my instruments down 1/2 step too.

@fronobulax you may be right as I may be looking to do something that could be out of spec for this instrument. In the end, I decided it's a keeper either way. I can play it as-is. Since this is my first short scale bass outside of Bass VI-type instruments, I wanted to check with others that have experience with the instrument. I'm attaching some photos of it as well.

I started replying to some of the responses, then you posted that beauty - wow! Looks great!

I personally would hesitate to mod the saddles. As frono noted, the way the harp bridge is constructed may prevent being able to notch them any deeper, plus do you really want to go messing with a small wooden part that is almost 50 years old? These saddles aren't easy to find these days.

With TI's you're definitely going to get lower tension - hope that helps with the action!

 

[oscarwao]

@hieronymous agreed, I won't go that route until I try the TI flats. Even a bit lower than it is now would make me happy at this point.

 

[mellowgerman]

Welcome Oscar, since you mention this is your first short scale bass, I would try to keep in mind that a shorter string will automatically have lower tension than a longer string, so super low action without buzzing (regardless of how level and crowned your frets are) is not as easy to accomplish when the string is 3-4" shorter. Naturally a looser string will vibrate to farther extremes... I'm not a trained physics guy, so that may not be the best choice of words, but I hope you know what I mean. This then dictates that lower tension requires a softer touch and/or higher action and/or more relief on the neck. That said, lower tension requires less force from the fretting hand, so in my mind, low action is not as important to a short scale's playability as it would be on a long scale with inherently higher tension strings. So I would try to get past any exact action measurement standards you may hold for your long scales.

 

[lungimsam]

Also, D'Addario Chromes stringsets have higher tension strings compared to same set guages than other popular brands. That may help reduce the swing of the string when plucked for less lossness and rattles.

I researched this when deciding which stringset to use on my Ricky bass (Ric has a policy of voiding your warrantee if you use a different than stock string set). So I researched the string tension of sets to make sure I was with parameters the neck could handle since I knew I didn't want anything but flats on it.

 

[Happy Face]

Great post from Mellow German.

Short scales also favor those us unblessed by God with large hands.

As to the heresy in the following post by lungimsam. Well, let's just suggest one uses flats on Guilds versus rounds on Alembics and RICKS.

 

[lungimsam]

Oh, I use flats on the Ric, the Fender, the Gibson, the Starfire...

 

[oscarwao]

So, TI flats are on the bass now and it plays better but there is no way to intonate the E string as I can’t move the saddle any further towards the nut. Anyone else run into this?

 

[mellowgerman]

So, TI flats are on the bass now and it plays better but there is no way to intonate the E string as I can’t move the saddle any further towards the nut. Anyone else run into this?

Unfortunately this is a common issue with the harp style Guild bridge. I actually moved my 1970 Starfire's bridge about a half inch farther forward (after doweling the screw holes). The earlier straight-front version sometimes had the opposite issue... at least on my 1966 SFB-I, I recall the saddle being all the way back and still a hair sharp. Hardly noticeable, but if you listened closely it was there. That was back when I was less fussy about these things and also rarely played that high on the neck. Now I sometimes wander up into that neck of the woods.

 

[oscarwao]

@mellowgerman Hmm, were the original holes visible after the changes? I think I could tackle that.

 

[mellowgerman]

@mellowgerman Hmm, were the original holes visible after the changes? I think I could tackle that.

Nope, they are still covered by the bridge. I will say, I wrote "about a half inch" as it has been a few years since the mod was done... may have been closer to "about a third of an inch" but either way, it worked and the holes are covered!

 

[mellowgerman]

Another option, which I debated but didn't try, would be to file the channel that the saddle's mounting slider is in, so that it allows for a little more forward motion

 

[Happy Face]

Another option, which I debated but didn't try, would be to file the channel that the saddle's mounting slider is in, so that it allows for a little more forward motion

I have done that. It helped.