I shouldn’t have done it!

[Granddaddy]

For whatever reason, pre-owned USA Guilds are not seen frequently around here. The best shop in town is full of Taylor (meh) fans, and Martin of course is much-loved (lots of country and bluegrass in these parts.) So while I know from certain experiences in my life that the Guild tone is what resonates (no pun intended) with me, I don’t get much chance to try them out as I’m shopping online - to compare one era to another, different tone woods, sizes and shapes, etc.

And as a middling-though-improving player I’ve been focused on finding something that seemed in keeping with my skill/progress level rather than a really high dollar specimen. I would just feel like an imposter if I stepped up to the stage with a guitar that punches way the hell above my weight class Thus, I’ve been shooting for solid but not flashy D-25s and similar models with plenty of battle scars. And truth be known those are still plenty for my abilities and needs not only now but in any foreseeable future circumstance. But who knows maybe someday I’ll be pleased with where I am in skill and reward myself for all the hard work and add another (higher) one. (Did you notice I said “add” with no mention of “replace”? I’m quite certain that I will have multiple Guild children when all is said and done.) I Haven’t been able to play any of the D-25 and similar ones. Maybe I should just drive a few hours somewhere so that I can have a comparison baseline.

But as as an example if where my head has bee, I found D4 that after a lot of discussion with the seller seems to be in good working shape (good neck, bridge, saddle, body, action, etc) but no beauty - well used and plenty of “character” but not beat to hell or anything - about $525. And as you know things along these lines are generally easy enough to find for $600-800.

So what should I NOT have done (as noted in the title of this thread)? I saw a New Hartford F-50 jumbo - spruce over maple listed at a local store I mainly wanted to see how I liked the size and comfort of a jumbo.

Holy sh**. Just wow. That bass. The power and projection. And while on other guitars I haven’t been as drawn to maple, on this jumbo it seemed to work just right to lift the “boom” and give the guitar clarity and crispness to balance it. And yet lots of sustain. And the easiest action I’ve played.

I’ve mentioned that I’m a keyboard player by training, but am now striving to improve on guitar and am gigging on guitar as well as on keys. I once had the chance to play a $100,000 Steinway concert grand. Or let me rephrase that: I put my hands on the keyboard and the Steinway played me. Things happened in my playing that had never been there before.

I had something kinda-sorta like that with the F-50 today. I didn’t suddenly become Tommy Emmanuel instead of Tommy Chong, but I swear I played better. Everything just flowed more easily with less mistakes and flubs. Have I just been playing guitars with worse actions, design, and playability - and any good and well-set up Guild sound be like that?

I’m not going to buy it. But I wondered - since I can’t at present test drive a D-25/D4/etc. without a road trip, how similar or dissimilar is the sound in general - in terms of that bass, depth, volume, warmth, etc - on those dreads (spruce/‘hog) vs this jumbo?

Also I did see what appears to be a pretty good price on a 1990s JF-4. Obviously not the same guitar but if I really loved the F-50, what might you expect my reaction to this would be? It’s all subjective and I’m asking the impossible: “What would I like?” And clearly you all can’t say. And I’m not holding anybody to anything. Just interested in observations.

 

[JohnW63]

Dreds can have a good amount of bass as well. It has a lot to do with the volume of air it moves around. The more space, the more bass... but the high end ones may do things better. This is not to say you can't find a nice dread that punches above it's price range and gives plenty of performance. The play-ability is all about the setup. The F-50 may have had a great setup. A D25 or D4 can be setup that nice too. You just need to find a good guitar tech or luthier to do it. The D-25 will have a different sound range than the F-50 because of the mahogany all around.

 

[Boomstick]

So there is nothing like the maple Guilds, and even among them, they're all a bit different. My F-50 is my favorite guitar. The action is around 4/32" and 3/32" and it sounds as great as it plays. I also have a '75 G-37 and that has a lot more mids but less lows and highs than the F-50. My dad has a GF-30 that is also maple and that sounds kind of between the two.

The mahogany models are a bit different. The traditional mahogany Guild models have a lot of lower midrange. The maple Guilds midrange spike comes at a higher frequency pretty much regardless of model. Not that you necessarily wouldn't like a D-25 or a D-4, but it's not going to sound alll that close.

You can sometimes find a use G-37 for around $1000ish.

Here is a phone recording my G-37.


Here is the same thing on my F-50, but I had to put the phone lower and thus further away because at the same distance away the F-50 is so loud the phone distorts something awful.



I will also add that my F-50 isn't the only Guild with insanely low action. My dad has a D-35 that's got it beat out. That guitar was setup in the 70s but to this day is a little too easy to play.

 

[steveintampa]

Amazing how one can hear themselves play better on a better guitar.

 

[Cougar]

....I saw a New Hartford F-50 jumbo.... I’m not going to buy it.....

Why not buy it? Probably expensive, yeah, but that's a top-of-the-heap 6-string right there. If it's just ridiculously out of your price range, maybe look into a JF30 -- same guitar, just less bling.

 

[3C4S]

Why not buy it? Probably expensive, yeah, but that's a top-of-the-heap 6-string right there. If it's just ridiculously out of your price range, maybe look into a JF30 -- same guitar, just less bling.

I agree with Cougar...Just buy it...Given your name "granddaddy", at this stage in life you deserve it...And as mentioned, if price is an issue or if you are still on the fence, the JF30 is great as well... There is one on Guitar Center website for a good price, and you can return it if not satisfied...But the GC model any need a set up...
Dave

 

[Boomstick]

Why not buy it? Probably expensive, yeah, but that's a top-of-the-heap 6-string right there. If it's just ridiculously out of your price range, maybe look into a JF30 -- same guitar, just less bling.

I am wondering the same thing, guessing due to the price.

But look, when you describe a guitar like that, do whatever it takes to buy it.

 

[Boneman]

Agreed, if it spoke to you this way:

”Holy sh**. Just wow. That bass. The power and projection. And while on other guitars I haven’t been as drawn to maple, on this jumbo it seemed to work just right to lift the “boom” and give the guitar clarity and crispness to balance it. And yet lots of sustain. And the easiest action I’ve played.”

Then you need to just buy that one or forever be haunted by I shoulda…

 

[steveintampa]

We are going to Nashville at the end of April for 4 days. Plenty of time to go to Carter's, Gruhn's, and The Gibson showcase.

I leave my wallet in the car.

 

[Br1ck]

When will we rid ourselves of the notion we have to be worthy of our instruments? The idea is hogwash. The instrument is there to serve us, not the other way around. Maybe you don't need to start on a Steinway grand, but does it hurt anything to hinder your progress. If an instruments looked great, you'll pick it up. If you do that you'll play it, if you play it you'll improve quicker. No one will know what you are playing anyway. Enjoy your guitar.

 

[JohnW63]

Well, I don't need a Ferrari to go to the supermarket, but it should sounds great and I'm sure it would make me a better driver.

I think while we may say "I don't deserve one that nice" or "I don't play well enough to get one of those" , what we really mean is I can't mentally/financially justify spending that much for what I'm going to do with it. Like a Ferrari. Now, if the Ferrari was at a bargain price and you didn't need to take it to a Ferrari dealer to get it tuned up, then maybe you can take the chance on it! I have a D-55. It paid just about $1000 for it. It did require the pick guard to be rotated slightly and the saddle changed out for one that suited me. I think it had a repair done to it before it came into my hands. I felt the deal was a good one anyway. If I had to spend new or even near new prices today, I wouldn't have dropped the dollars on it.

 

[Granddaddy]

OK, you guys are getting in my head. I want a Guild jumbo. No, I need one. And I deserve one. And cost be damned!

All right now, that I have gotten that out of my system, I'll resume my cheapskate behavior. BUT I am meeting you halfway, ok? I"m not an unreasonable guy. I really don't think I'll buy the $2500 F-50 that I played, but I am open to a suitable yet still somewhat less expensive approach.

Especially does the JF-30 intrigue me. Same guitar as the F-50 for all practical purposes, just less bling, as I understand you. (And make no mistake I love the niceties. Bling is really pretty, and I'd love to have it. But I don't have to. And it looks like I could find a very nice JF-30 for $1000-ish less.

Here are some others that I wanted to ask about:

1) Knowing how I was so taken by the sound of the F-50, how do you suppose the F-40 would grab me ? How much less bass and "presence" does the smaller body make, in your experience? 16" vs. 17" right?

2) JF4. I *think* the size is the same as the F-50, but I couldn't find the info for sure. I'm expecting that there are some differences on what appears to be an even less blinged guitar, but the big one is the fact that it's mahogany, not maple like the F-50 that I enjoyed so much. I have no basis for comparison in person, but I'm curious as to the opinion of how radically the tone differ. I know what I can read, but reading vs. hearing are very different things. I might love the 'hog back and sides just as much who knows, but I am very interested in your thoughts. You will recall that the bass on the F-50 caught my ear and that I thought that the maple (not always my favorite) worked well as an offset for the "boom." Beyond that, what has always drawn me to Guild is the warm, rich, "comfort blanket" sound.

3) I am surprised that I am including this one, since I have always dismissed any Guild but USA-made in my quest for my main guitar - my 6-string. And so I have automatically just skipped over the GAD line. But in looking at jumbos the last few days have read some good things about the GAD JF-30, which if I understand things correctly is the Chinese manufactured version, using generally the same design (and materials?) as the USA JF-30. I came across a 2004 spruce/maple one at what (compared to the "real" ones) is a good bit lower in price. But again, I have no basis to know what I would be giving up sonically. So as always, your thoughts are welcome.

The 100% safe bet for getting what tickled my ears and heart would be to go back and buy the one I played. But let's set that aside. (Especially after what I did today - more on that in a minute.)

So after that I'm assuming that the next surest bet would be a USA JF-30. But since after that the other options (JF-4 and GAD JF-30) have a pretty meaningful drop off in price, I'm quite interested to know more about these and how they might (or might not) stack up.

The F-40 might be the furthest off from the F-50 soundwise, I don't know. You can tell me if that's just incorrect.

Now I did note that I have been moved by your fervor, and your admonishment to not be such a world-class cheapskate and to try to stop the internal headgames about "I don't deserve it because my playing isn't up to snuff" -- and decided to try to meet you in the middle,. True thought that is, I did something today that makes my head start to lean back in the "wrong" (or is it "right"?) direction. I spotted what I believe to be a really good deal on an 80s Guild D-212 (12-string)) and without a lot of thought, or hand-wringing hesitation, bought it for myself. (There's a separate thread on that purchase with details.) So I figured the lower-priced options were at least worth chatting about if nothing else.

Oh, and I can share links to the specific guitars that I was seeing (GAD JF-30, F4, etc.) if those broadly speaking hold any merit for consideration. I just didn't want to make you read and peruse too much if those models just need to be disqualified on principle.

Here's the thread about that mostly impulse purchase I did make (see this group therapy is helping!) : https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/index.php?threads/just-bought-a-12-string-guild.227246/#post-2217166

 

[JohnW63]

We should have a warning " landing page " when people register. 31 posts gone by and he's bought a 12 string and is still searching for a jumbo or dred. It's a sad, sad thing this forum does to peoples wallet.

 

[steveintampa]

Here is a nice looking '97 JF-30. I communicated with the seller. He previously had it listed without a model and as I an'01. He provided me with the model and serial number and I informed him that is was a '97, and he relisted it. If I did not already have one in sunburst...

https://reverb.com/item/86816914-guild-acoustic-electric-guitar-arch-top-1997-natural

 

[Boomstick]

All right now, that I have gotten that out of my system, I'll resume my cheapskate behavior. BUT I am meeting you halfway, ok? I"m not an unreasonable guy. I really don't think I'll buy the $2500 F-50 that I played, but I am open to a suitable yet still somewhat less expensive approach.

To be completely honest here, I've never played another guitar that really sounds like my F-50 short of a Guild Hank Williams model which sounded similar and some very expensive guitars from smaller builders, one is a Goodall that would be well into five figures today.

I haven't played a JF-30 in years, but the one I do recall the one I played definitely did not sound quite the same. Lacked the punch and bass of the F-50, but it does capture similar midrange so maybe you'd like it.

The F-40 (new or old) is pretty far tonewise from a F-50 as well.

 

[Boomstick]

Now I did note that I have been moved by your fervor, and your admonishment to not be such a world-class cheapskate and to try to stop the internal headgames about "I don't deserve it because my playing isn't up to snuff" -- and decided to try to meet you in the middle,. True thought that is, I did something today that makes my head start to lean back in the "wrong" (or is it "right"?) direction. I spotted what I believe to be a really good deal on an 80s Guild D-212 (12-string)) and without a lot of thought, or hand-wringing hesitation, bought it for myself. (There's a separate thread on that purchase with details.) So I figured the lower-priced options were at least worth chatting about if nothing else.

You can often find a lot of deals on usually older Guilds on craigslist and FB Marketplace. My dad has to have one of the world's best Guild collections, and counting the three he's given to me he paid over $800 for two of them.

You won't do much better than a JF-30 for a F-50 soundalike at a lower cost, but you might like a $800 D-40 or $600 D-25 should one popup as well - they're very different sounding guitars, but that doesn't mean they're bad.

Also I think I already mentioned this but keep an eye out for other maple Guilds like a G-37 or GF-30. They don't really sound like the F-50, but if you like the midrange of maple (like I do), maple Guilds are usually great.

 

[Granddaddy]

Here is a nice looking '97 JF-30. I communicated with the seller. He previously had it listed without a model and as I an'01. He provided me with the model and serial number and I informed him that is was a '97, and he relisted it. If I did not already have on in sunburst...

https://reverb.com/item/86816914-guild-acoustic-electric-guitar-arch-top-1997-natural

Thanks Steve. That one caught my eye too, and I had asked the owner a question. It’s definitely on my (very) short list. In fact right now I think I’ve whittled it down to two. The ‘97 you linked and a budget approach. Two different ways of skinning the cat or scratching the itch.

Here is the other one that is on the list - the budget one. https://reverb.com/p/guild-gad-jf30 The write-up about the fix-up is interesting and he has some good pictures showing some of that. It appears that they took a lot of care. I put it my Reverb watch list and received an offer of $625 plus shipping.

What I would love to hear from y’all is a *guess* as to how the real deal USA JF-30 and the GAD version *might* compare. And I’m not holding anybody accountable. Just interested in thoughts from those who have played or heard one

If the consensus were, I dunno … that they’re 90% the same or something like that the price difference might make it worthwhile. But if most people said they’re not bad, something like 70% the same, it gets well into the nah-I’ll pass territory.

I know it’s all subjective and you can’t accurately put a hard number on the tone and personality of a guitar. Just trying to get a feel for it.

So yeah, are they siblings or 3rd cousins? Next door neighbors or strangers?

 

[Boomstick]

Here is the other one that is on the list - the budget one. https://reverb.com/p/guild-gad-jf30 The write-up about the fix-up is interesting and he has some good pictures showing some of that. It appears that they took a lot of care. I put it my Reverb watch list and received an offer of $625 plus shipping.

I would keep shopping for US JF-30s. The GADs were usually decent guitars but they were designed to be the cheaper import line to begin with and not quite a US Guild.

I'm pretty sure you may eventually find one for around $11000 for a US model. There is a nice one listed on reverb for $1400 right now, but if you wait, sometimes one will pop up for less. Also used guitars aren't selling right now so people may ultimately get on a cost lowering competition with each other with current listings as well and maybe you can make a lower offer.

 

[3C4S]

Graddaddy,

First, I hope you were joking when you mentioned we made you feel like a "cheapskate"...My comments, as I suspect others, were just to not sell yourself short and think you do not deserve a good guitar...If a guitar checks all the boxes, then go for it..And price is a box all need to check when making a "want" purchase...I recently passed on a few Martin's as they were priced higher than I wanted to go...(Have never owned a Martin, but plan to.)

Next, your thoughts on a JF30 are spot on in my opinion...Here is one at GC for $1,199...However, if you call the store and ask for their best shipped price, they may go down more. They also had one for $999, but it looks like it sold...Best part about GC is you can return it and they can ship to you or to your local GC...

Used Guild Used Guild JF30-B1 Natural Acoustic Guitar Natural | Guitar Center

For greater savings check out our Used Guild Used Guild JF30-B1 Natural Acoustic Guitar and get a great deal today!

www.guitarcenter.com

There is also one in VA on Facebook...

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Hope the links work...

I have a JF30 and it is a cannon...My luthier put medium Martin Kovar Nickel-Cobalt alloy on it...

Last, Your D212 purchase is great...great Price, looks to be in great shape, and you can return it as all...nothing to lose...

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Cougar]

What I would love to hear from y’all is a *guess* as to how the real deal USA JF-30 and the GAD version *might* compare.

Well, the GADs are generally considered the best of the Made-in-China (MIC) Guilds, but they're.... made in China. They're less expensive because the materials are less expensive. The workmanship is remarkably good considering what I imagine is the difference in salary between the US and China.

After all is said and done, however good a GAD might be, you will wish you had a US-made JF30. When in the hunt for a good deal, PATIENCE is required!