I know I'm gonna be sorry I asked but......

[RBSinTo]

Guildsters are constantly referring to various models by prefacing model numbers with production locations (Oxnard, Westerly, Hoboken).
I assume that at various times production was moved from place to place, but weren't guitar models produced at more than one location when production moved, and even so, why is the site of manufacture important enough to be mentioned when model X or Y is discussed?
RBSinTo

 

[Opsimath]

You won't be sorry you asked if you have interest in Guild history. I'll let the experts answer your questions. I think I have some of the answers, but not in the detail that other members can offer. I think that's a good question and I'm looking forward to seeing what they say so I can see how close to correct my own understanding is.

 

[davismanLV]

The history without dates goes: New York NY, Hoboken NJ, Westerly RI, Corona CA, Tacoma WA, New Hartford CT, and now Oxnard CA. The Custom Shop was in Nashville TN I believe. Some people affix build qualities (lighter, heavier, etc.) to certain places and times. Some prefer a certain factory for whatever reasons they have. And some locations carry some stigma because of the amount of time spent there and what the company (Fender at that time) did to facilitate the move to the next factory. Case in point is Corona and Tacoma. Both locations were barely in operation for two years and when they moved to the next location, excess stock of built guitars were liquidated through MIRC (Musical Instruments Reclamation Corporation) to be sold at a reduced rate with no warranty. Some think this looked as a sign of bad quality, when in reality is was mostly just getting rid of stock they didn't want to move or service in years to come. Considering all the moving around I think Guild has quite a bit of consistency of product. More will arrive with their viewpoints on the matter.

p.s. - also, certain locations kept a model number but made structural or design changes, i.e. Tacoma saw the advent of red spruce (Adirondack Spruce) bracing and also used Adirondack for tops on some models, so those locations can indicate different build specs.

 

[RBSinTo]

Thanks Tom.
A concise explanation that still explains it rather well.
The bit about factory preference does still mystify me somewhat, but to quote myself, " Everybody does what they do."
RBSinTo

 

[dreadnut]

If you have been fortunate enough to play guitars from each location, you can make your own observations. I have 3 Westerly Guilds, and I have been able to play them from all locations at Elderly Instruments over the years. Loved the Tacoma D50's!

 

[davismanLV]

You're totally welcome, RBS. I tried to be as succinct as possible. If you want the long version, we should wait for @adorshki to chime in. Al is good at the long version of things, as you'll come to know. He's good at detail!

 

[adorshki]

Guildsters are constantly referring to various models by prefacing model numbers with production locations (Oxnard, Westerly, Hoboken).
I assume that at various times production was moved from place to place, but weren't guitar model produced at more than one location when production moved, and even so, why is the site if manufacture important enough to be mentioned when model X or Y is discussed?
RBSinTo

Because construction techniques and specs changed over time, as well as the various locations' "Build styles" as in "light and resonant" vs "Something built like a tank has no right to sound this good".

Some owners prefer one style over another and have detailed sonic differences they perceive that caused the preference.

Example a Corona D25 can only be an all-hog flatback most likely in the "built like a tank" style yet some folks love 'em.

The only time there were 2 US factories in simultaneous production was when Hoboken operations were being moved to Westerly, a roughly 2 year period from late '67 to '69.

There may have been some slight overlap between Westerly and Corona particularly since Corona started building electrics before Westerly was finally shut down, but not sure if there was actual simultaneous production. Seem to recall they earliest electrics were actually built on Fender's line as they hadn't finished building the dedicated Guild production area yet, which was for the flattops.

 

[fronobulax]

Guildsters are constantly referring to various models by prefacing model numbers with production locations (Oxnard, Westerly, Hoboken).
I assume that at various times production was moved from place to place, but weren't guitar model produced at more than one location when production moved, and even so, why is the site if manufacture important enough to be mentioned when model X or Y is discussed?
RBSinTo

The short answer is that the specs associated with a model number varied. There are also cases where the specs did not change but the model numbers did.

If you say "WTB F30" people will ask what specs are you interested in because "F30" is not enough.

If you say WTB D25 there will be some variation in specs but you might also get offered a couple of different vintage models and maybe even a new D20.

If you want a D55 after 2010 people will include the factory since the specs didn't vary but there is always the possibility that two factories did something different that might matter to the person asking the question.

Generally, except for Westerly, if specs or model numbers changed it correlated with a factory move.

 

[GAD]

Some Guild Factory info:

Guild Guitar Factories | GAD's Ramblings

I think we as guitarists tend to think of guitar factories as glorious magical places where our favorite instruments are born. Reality paints a different picture, however, because guitars aren’t born. Guitars are made, and they’re made in factories. A random question on a forum made me wonder...

www.gad.net

Here's a quick timeline pic I did a while back:

As for why, some people firmly believe that Guilds made during certain eras are better than others. Sometimes they're right.

 

[Br1ck]

To confuse matters even more, there were distinct differences in the Waverly years, with pre '73 guitars being more like Hobokens. For instance the D 25 was a flat back, then changed to the arch top. It matters because my experience and therefore my comfort zone is with the earlier guitars. That said, the New Hartford guitars I've played have been very nice. I might say the same for other factories but for my lack of experience with them.

 

[davismanLV]

Just as an assist, sometimes people refer to Westerly as "Waverly" which is a company that makes nice tuners just because people confuse them in the ads they post all the time. So it's said "tongue-in-cheek" as it were.....

 

[chazmo]

Br1ck got TomInVegas'd!

 

[RBSinTo]

"........If you want a D55 after 2010 people will include the factory since the specs didn't vary but there is always the possibility that two factories did something different that might matter to the person asking the question......."

This is the business I don't understand. Unless a new process in the industry had coincidently evolved at the time Guild moved from A to B, wouldn't production be the same for this or that model that was built in both places, or is this just another example of a collector's excuse to buy yet another guitar, and use " just in case its different" as the rationale?
RBSinTo

 

[GAD]

This is the business I don't understand. Unless a new process in the industry had coincidently evolved at the time Guild moved from A to B, wouldn't production be the same for this or that model that was built in both places, or is this just another example of a collector's excuse to buy yet another guitar, and use " just in case its different" as the rationale?
RBSinTo

Guitars are made by people, and most of the people that had worked for decades in Westerly did not move to Corona.

 

[donnylang]

The focus of my attention is the '60s-'70s, so I will limit comments to that era.

What I have observed is that Hoboken vs. Westerly is definitely a thing- after all, how couldn't it be? Changing a location also means changing the people who are making them in many cases. I believe some of the Hoboken folks moved to Westerly, but many were also hired from the furniture-making operation that had been in the building prior. Something like that. So I think these things are relevant.

I think more than the physical location however, a few pivotal points are worth noting:

1. Guild was sold to Avnet in 1966.
2. Production began in Westerly in 1967-8.
3. Mark Dronge (the guy who came up with the idea of Guild making dreadnoughts and 12-strings, and worked directly with artists such as Paul Simon & Richie Havens) left in 1968.
4. Al Dronge was still heavily involved until 1972.

^ To me, those four events are likely relevant to trends in Guild guitars of the era that can be traced to those time frames.

 

[geoguy]

Also, note that some materials and construction details are available only from certain factories that produced the same model numbers.

For example, I think that no Adirondack spruce tops were available until Tacoma.

And Adirondack spruce bracing was the norm at New Hartford CT, but not at Westerly RI, for example. So someone who wants that type of bracing needs to look for an instrument produced at a specific factory.

 

[fronobulax]

This is the business I don't understand. Unless a new process in the industry had coincidently evolved at the time Guild moved from A to B, wouldn't production be the same for this or that model that was built in both places, or is this just another example of a collector's excuse to buy yet another guitar, and use " just in case its different" as the rationale?
RBSinTo

It's not the factory that is of primary importance. It is that specs changed and certain specs were only available at certain factories. Consider rosewood back and sides. Brazilian - New York, Hoboken, maybe Westerly. East Indian - Westerly. IIRC sometime during the later Westerly years they stopped listing what type of Rosewood. If I wanted EIR I might specify Westerly instead of EIR. It's a shorthand or maybe jargon.

Production lines have changed both during the years a factory operated and when factories have changed but for the most part the changes don't make an obvious difference.

You gave me an idea, though. I think @GAD should query his catalogs for models that were made in at least five factories and the try and collect one from each factory....

 

[RBSinTo]

Guitars are made by people, and most of the people that had worked for decades in Westerly did not move to Corona.

GAD,
Taking this logic to its conclusion that every guitar built by a different person is different from the same models built by other people, does this mean that if five guys work at _______making model XYZ, Guildsters will try to determine which guitars were built by which guy and try to buy one built by each guy?????
RBSinTo

 

[RBSinTo]

It's not the factory that is of primary importance. It is that specs changed and certain specs were only available at certain factories. Consider rosewood back and sides. Brazilian - New York, Hoboken, maybe Westerly. East Indian - Westerly. IIRC sometime during the later Westerly years they stopped listing what type of Rosewood. If I wanted EIR I might specify Westerly instead of EIR. It's a shorthand or maybe jargon.

Production lines have changed both during the years a factory operated and when factories have changed but for the most part the changes don't make an obvious difference.

You gave me an idea, though. I think @GAD should query his catalogs for models that were made in at least five factories and the try and collect one from each factory....

Not at all surprised at all by your idea.
RBSinTo

 

[GAD]

GAD,
Taking this logic to its conclusion that every guitar built by a different person is different from the same models built by other people, does this mean that if five guys work at _______making model XYZ, Guildsters will try to determine which guitars were built by which guy and try to buy one built by each guy?????
RBSinTo

Yes, that would absolutely be the kind of thing that would happen here. We're a nutty bunch.