I bought a Guild M-120E : Tuners question...

[edgarmadhook]

Hi folks! It's been a while.

So, first off....yeah, yeah yeah....the M20 is a better guitar but I had to buy the poor man's version. Still, I spent well over my budget getting this guitar & took a lot of time to research it as much as possible, mainly due to the fact I probably couldn't try it before I bought it.
I'm not in a place that sees an abundance of choice (Leipzig in Germany) so buying something like an old Epiphone or beaten up Gibson was out of the question. I'm trusting in the consistency & reputation of Guild, regardless of the fact it's made in China & not the US.

In the end though, it was a great decision! Chinese-made does not always mean poor quality. The guitar looks & feels great! It's louder than expected, while being very well balanced tonally. It also performs remarkably well as a strummer which is great because that tends to be more my style. I did buy this with the intention of practicing more finger-style techniques though
It's 5 years old & the seller set it up perfectly with a nice low action & some great Elixir Nano-web strings. Seriously, I can't put this thing down. It's an absolute joy to play! Oh yeah, it came with a hardcase too, instead of the more recent PolyFoam cases.

Also, I was looking for something completely different to my old D50 (spruce/rosewood dreadnought) so a small-bodied, all mahogany guitar fit the bill perfectly...

The only change I've made is to change the plastic bridge pins to an identical set of ebony ones that my D50 has...

So, to my question...

What are peoples experiences with the tuners on low end Guild acoustics? I've read a few discussions where people have said the guitar goes out of tune & an upgrade has solved the problem perfectly. Saying that though, the seller told me that this one stays in tune fine, depending on how heavy-handed you play.

It's been holding up well for the past 48 hours & this is more a question for the future than an immediate concern. I've looked at the Guild website & see three different descriptions on some of the Chinese "Westerley" series.

M-120E (2014) - Vintage-Style Open-Back
M-120 (current) - Guild Vintage 18 Open Gear Tuners (nickel)
DS-240 (current) - Guild Tuning Machine GBB2 Butterbean 18:1 (nickel)

The tuners on the DS-240 are actually stamped "Guild". The other two aren't.

From what I gather, the US-made M20 uses Grovers which I'd probably buy, if I had to upgrade. But, do people know if there's actually a difference in quality between the three I've listed above, or have they simply evolved in appearance & description?

 

[beecee]

I've played a few, alas they were the red version otherwise if the hog stain I would have one.

Great little guitars, I'll let the experts chime in: https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Guild_M_120_Acoustic_Guitar_Review

Now that doesn't answer your question but to paraphrase an old Dr's advice: tune it up and call me in the morning...if still in tune...why change?

 

[edgarmadhook]

I appreciate the link, and agree with everything said about how this little guy looks, feels & performs.

But, considering they're supposed to be experts, they're sadly misguided with the Nick Drake connection...

"...For folk fans, the original Guild M-20 will always be synonymous with Nick Drake. But where a lot of iconic artist-guitar associations are in large part visual, the all-mahogany M-20 was arguably an indispensible part of Drake’s understated, intimate, and mysterious musical reveries..."

It's fairly well documented by people close to Mr Drake that he simply picked the M20 up for the now iconic photoshoot (along with a pair of shoes he borrowed from the same guy). Many state, with almost complete certainty, that they only ever saw Nick Drake perform & record with a dreadnought.


...but enough about Nick. More about me....heheheheh! I love this thing!!!!

 

[Gie663]

Hello everybody, first post.
Since a few months I also own a Guild M-120 and it is a true gem, a joy to play
I haven’t experienced any issues with the stock tuners so far, the guitar stays in tune nicely. I only need to readjust occasionally.
I changed the original D’Addario strings for Martin MA 175T Acoustic Lifespan 2.0 strings. Not a cheap set, but they sound gorgeous.

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG! More Europeans!

Ralf

 

[edgarmadhook]

I did the obvious thing (that didn't even cross my mind) and counted the teeth on my M-120 and checked the newer models.

Mine (2014 model) has unbranded 14:1s. The newer line has branded 18:1s.
Mine has a hardshell case though. The new ones come with the PolyFoam cases.

So, the new M-120s have been upgraded in the tuner department.

 

[Cougar]

...I'm not in a place that sees an abundance of choice (Leipzig in Germany) so buying something like an old Epiphone or beaten up Gibson was out of the question. I'm trusting in the consistency & reputation of Guild, regardless of the fact it's made in China & not the US..... In the end though, it was a great decision! Chinese-made does not always mean poor quality.

Congrats on your sweet looking M120E! I agree that the Chinese factories have been producing very good quality guitars for many years, especially the Grand Reward plant in Guangdong, which has a long history with Guild. I used to have a half dozen Chinese-made Epiphone Masterbilts, most out of their Qingdao plant but a couple came out of Grand Reward. All were really well made. The only consistent shortcoming was a weak bass E string, which made it a bit unbalanced compared to the other strings. Sounds like MIC Guilds don't have that problem.

I wouldn't worry about changing out the tuners unless they're really giving you fits having to retune all the time, which isn't that big a deal anymore with these new digital tuners. Just be happy it's not a 12-string!

 

[AndyJ]

I own a M-120e as well. It's a great 'lil guitar and is a nice strummer. . .it has an almost archtop-y tone. I was a little dubious about the tuners as well, as each were a little Slack or a little tight. However, that didn't affect their ability to hold a tune. As a matter of fact they've evened-out a little bit over time as they have broken it. Remember, most tuning issues are due to how one wraps the string around the post and how the nut is cut.

 

[pagedr]

I upgraded my M240 to some Gotoh tuners with white buttons. I like that look better than the chrome butterbean tuners, but I don't notice a huge difference in tuning stability. Mostly a cosmetic improvement.

 

[Gabby84]

I upgraded my M240 to some Gotoh tuners with white buttons. I like that look better than the chrome butterbean tuners, but I don't notice a huge difference in tuning stability. Mostly a cosmetic improvement.

where did you get the tuner buttons?

 

[Gabby84]

Gorgeous M-120, great guitar!

 

[midnightright]

I had one briefly over the course of the spring/winter... had to sell due to vet bills. Very much regretted it! I had the same one as you, with the skinnier nut width than the current offerings, hard case and no electronics. Mine was about 5 years old, and I'd say you could argue it was comparable with the Martin 000-15M i'd had a few years back (which is saying something becasue I absolutely loved that guitar: perfect fit & sound for my body!) - I don't know about substituting the tuners, but I played a lot fo Nick Drake on it (& that means various tunings).

 

[pagedr]

where did you get the tuner buttons?

Found them on Reverb, there were a few different kinds with the white buttons (open back, Kluson style, 3 on a side, etc).

 

[Gabby84]

Found them on Reverb, there were a few different kinds with the white buttons (open back, Kluson style, 3 on a side, etc).

thanks!

 

[edgarmadhook]

Just reporting back...

I'm still in love with this guitar & it's been very weird picking up my old D50 today, forgetting what the difference in tone & projection would be like. I think I'm absolutely sorted now, in terms of what I want from acoustic guitars. These two compliment each other perfectly!

Tuning wise, things are OK. They seem to be holding tune more so now & I'm wondering if I was a bit quick to judge, worrying that the tuners were a) unbranded, and b) a lower ratio.

I've actually been a bit silly, noticing how nice the M20 tuners look, with the ivory buttons. I kinda want them now but I'd probably end up paying Waverley prices (not gonna happen).

I have the chance to buy the 18:1 Grovers (chrome buttons) from an American outlet (much cheaper than the EU) and I have a friend who'd be able to bring them over with him in December, saving me postage costs & import tax. So, I've got another 3 months before I make my mind up.

Thanks for all the comments, folks.

 

[Br1ck]

Tuners are rarely, if ever, the cause of tuning issues. It does not matter how cheap they are. How strings are wound around the post is often the issue. Nuts are often poorly cut too. If you get an abrupt change it is most likely the string hanging up in a nut slot. Don't forget to always tune up to pitch from being flat. Investing in a setup is a better use of your funds. I wouldn't put new tuners on your guitar.

 

[edgarmadhook]

Tuners are rarely, if ever, the cause of tuning issues. It does not matter how cheap they are. How strings are wound around the post is often the issue. Nuts are often poorly cut too. If you get an abrupt change it is most likely the string hanging up in a nut slot. Don't forget to always tune up to pitch from being flat. Investing in a setup is a better use of your funds. I wouldn't put new tuners on your guitar.

True.

It's not an abrupt change but there's a slightly noticable lack of stability with the G and B strings.

I've been playing acoustics for long enough to know how to set one up so I won't need to invest money in that kind of thing.
I'll take a closer look at the nut when if/when I replace the strings. Also though, this guitar was professionally set up before I bought it.