help ID this capacitor

Quantum Strummer

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Different caps of the same stated value can have audible differences in frequency response. Where I draw the line at "cap sniffing" is the point where people start insisting on the inherent superiority of this or that cap tech (PIO, ceramic disc, etc.).

-Dave-
 

GAD

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Different caps of the same stated value can have audible differences in frequency response. Where I draw the line at "cap sniffing" is the point where people start insisting on the inherent superiority of this or that cap tech (PIO, ceramic disc, etc.).

-Dave-

How are those two things different?
 

Quantum Strummer

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How are those two things different?
What I meant is that I think some folks confuse the amount of slop in capacitor tolerances with an imagined sonic difference in capacitor types. Dave likes how the particular ceramic cap in his Telecaster colors the sound with the tone knob rolled back ~20% and imagines this is due to ceramic caps in general rather than to the value of this specific cap.

-Dave
 

GAD

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What I meant is that I think some folks confuse the amount of slop in capacitor tolerances with an imagined sonic difference in capacitor types. Dave likes how the particular ceramic cap in his Telecaster colors the sound with the tone knob rolled back ~20% and imagines this is due to ceramic caps in general rather than to the value of this specific cap.

-Dave


Ahh - I see, and tend to agree. I've seen this with pots, too. I have a Historic Les Paul that I could not get to sound good, and it was too damn expensive not to sound good. I had put in some known good amazing pickups and it just sounded dead. The consensus on a certain nameless guitar forum was basically, "Modern Les Paul pots suck - you'll never get that vintage CentraLab sound without putting in CentraLab pots from the '50s." or "You need vintage Bumblebee caps!" or some other firmly believe hokum.

I measured the pots in that guitar and the neck controls were something like 420k. I replaced all the pots with 525k +/- 5% pots (all measured at 520-530k and the guitar came alive in a "holy CRAP!" kind of way. That experience led me to believe that the tone a lot of people search for could be found if they abandon their rare capacitor quest and just put in some quality well-spec'd pots.

Said Les Paul because it's just so pretty:

5D3_1659_1600.jpg
 

AcornHouse

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The same goes with boutique amp builders, with the expensive Sozo caps at al. I have a ‘66 Supro Thunderbolt that puts most amps, vintage or modern, to shame. And they used mostly cheap ceramic caps throughout.

Its how you use ‘em.
 

kakerlak

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Ahh - I see, and tend to agree. I've seen this with pots, too. I have a Historic Les Paul that I could not get to sound good, and it was too damn expensive not to sound good. I had put in some known good amazing pickups and it just sounded dead. The consensus on a certain nameless guitar forum was basically, "Modern Les Paul pots suck - you'll never get that vintage CentraLab sound without putting in CentraLab pots from the '50s." or "You need vintage Bumblebee caps!" or some other firmly believe hokum.

I measured the pots in that guitar and the neck controls were something like 420k. I replaced all the pots with 525k +/- 5% pots (all measured at 520-530k and the guitar came alive in a "holy CRAP!" kind of way. That experience led me to believe that the tone a lot of people search for could be found if they abandon their rare capacitor quest and just put in some quality well-spec'd pots.

Said Les Paul because it's just so pretty:

5D3_1659_1600.jpg

Shouldn't the sound be virtually unaffected by the pots/caps/etc with the controls dimed? Like, beyond some super nominal path resistance, aren't the controls virtually bypassed with the knobs up? What I'm getting at is, if you hate the sound of a guitar with the controls in use, shouldn't you be able to get a pretty good idea what it's truly got to offer with the controls all the way up?
 

kakerlak

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The same goes with boutique amp builders, with the expensive Sozo caps at al. I have a ‘66 Supro Thunderbolt that puts most amps, vintage or modern, to shame. And they used mostly cheap ceramic caps throughout.

Its how you use ‘em.
I used cheapo metal caps when I recapped a drip-edge Bandmaster to prep it for sale. It sounded wonderful. Matter of fact, I kind of miss that whole setup. I had the Bandmaster head, a 2-10 Tremolux cab loaded with EVM-10Ms. It would'be needed a standalone reverb to be a main/go-to rig and that cabinet was extremely heavy with those speakers in it, but it was the prettiest, hi-fi sounding amp. Then again, the speaker cab got traded for what proved to be the best SG I've ever played and ended my wife's #1 guitar, so I can't complain.
 

Nuuska

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A capacitor naturally acts as a high-pass filter in an audio circuit, but you can turn it into a low-pass filter (as in rolling off treble with a 'Tone' pot) by wiring its output to ground. Capacitors like to let DC current flow through while blocking AC, and higher audio frequencies look more like DC to a cap than do lower frequencies.

Also, if you never use your tone pots it doesn't really matter what value caps are wired to those pots. The pot itself offers some resistance, which jibes with GAD's point above about the importance of pots, but your guitar's signal will hardly touch the caps at all unless you roll down a tone knob.

-Dave-

A nice explanation - except red part is backwards - they block DC - and LOWER frequencies are closer to DC.

I'm sure you know it - just slipped . . .
 

Quantum Strummer

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Shouldn't the sound be virtually unaffected by the pots/caps/etc with the controls dimed? Like, beyond some super nominal path resistance, aren't the controls virtually bypassed with the knobs up? What I'm getting at is, if you hate the sound of a guitar with the controls in use, shouldn't you be able to get a pretty good idea what it's truly got to offer with the controls all the way up?
The signal is definitely affected by the pots even when turned full up. Those 300K volume pots in some '70s Gibsons are rolling off more treble set at "10" than a 500K pot would. There are pot/switch combos, though, where engaging the switch (typically by turning the knob past 10 via a click stop) takes the pot out of the signal path.

-Dave-
 
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