Guild's lighter-weight archtops?

Sam Powrie

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Before I sign off on this thread I'd like to ask a couple of additional questions arising from the suggestions people have offered. I am aware that the Korean-made Starfires (single and double cutaway) may go back to about 2015 though I'm not sure of exact time lines. It seems that one of these is most likely to be what I can find in Australia - perhaps even a new 'NS' model. I note that they seem to come in both mahogany and maple construction and all the new ones seem to all feature a maple neck and a centre-block of some sort. The mahogany on the body seems to be the striped Sapele type, and the maple appears to be the plain, unfigured variety.

Can anyone tell me any if the Newark Street (or any Korean-made) Starfires have ever been available with:
- a fully hollow body (ie; no centre-block)?
- a mahogany neck?
- natural finish, maybe even with a figured maple top and back laminate?

More to the point I suppose, can anyone venture an opinion as to whether the different construction woods make any difference to the amplified sound? I've read somewhere that a mahogany neck (as on the beautiful X-150D at GGJaguar's site) can have a substantial impact on this.

Thanks all,

Sam P.
 

GAD

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The current owners of Guild have seriously muddied the waters with confusing model names, but if you go to the Guild Newark St. Page the nine guitars in the hollow-body section should be completely hollow without sound blocks or center blocks. In the current Guild electric line, those should be among the lightest.

Today's Guild also likes to make guitars with different finishes into different models, so for example if you like the X175, you can't get it in natural unless you get the X175B (my review here) that comes with a Bigsby. My X175B weighed 6lbs 13oz (3.09kg).
 
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Sam Powrie

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Today's Guild also likes to make guitars with different finishes into different models, so for example if you like the X175, you can't get it in natural unless you get the X175B (my review here) that comes with a Bigsby. My X175B weighed 6lbs 13oz (3.09kg).

Thanks GAD - I went to your site and got Guild-lost for a couple of hours - which I don't regret! I was interested to read your review of your X-170. I note that you said there that production started in 1988, although it appears that my X-170 is dated '9/87'. Is this thus flexible dating or is there something more interesting going on. I'm presuming that the HB-1 pickups on my guitar would be the 'original' one?

I love the sound of my X-170 although I am intrigued by differences between it and a 1999 DeArmond X-135 (single pickup) archtop I have. The DeArmond has a very interesting 'acoustic' open sound when amplified which I put down to a more vibrant and body (it's fully hollow). With the DeArmond it seems much easier to get a very bright or edgy sound (I don't mean brittle) that I haven't quite nailed with the X-170 yet.

Unfortunately I'm selling the X-135, mainly because it's a bit big, but the sound it gets is very interesting! I do wonder if I might get that same breathy acoustic quality with something like the NS A-150 or one of the fully hollow Starfires...
 

fronobulax

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I note that you said there that production started in 1988, although it appears that my X-170 is dated '9/87'. Is this thus flexible dating or is there something more interesting going on.

As a possibly related veer, the Starfire bass was introduced in 1965 according to catalogs and marketing documentation. But several examples have been found with a serial number that dates to 1964. The explanation, which makes sense, is that they started producing Starfire basses before the official introduction so that there would be stock on hand when they were officially introduced.
 

GAD

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Thanks GAD - I went to your site and got Guild-lost for a couple of hours - which I don't regret! I was interested to read your review of your X-170. I note that you said there that production started in 1988, although it appears that my X-170 is dated '9/87'. Is this thus flexible dating or is there something more interesting going on. I'm presuming that the HB-1 pickups on my guitar would be the 'original' one?

I love the sound of my X-170 although I am intrigued by differences between it and a 1999 DeArmond X-135 (single pickup) archtop I have. The DeArmond has a very interesting 'acoustic' open sound when amplified which I put down to a more vibrant and body (it's fully hollow). With the DeArmond it seems much easier to get a very bright or edgy sound (I don't mean brittle) that I haven't quite nailed with the X-170 yet.

Unfortunately I'm selling the X-135, mainly because it's a bit big, but the sound it gets is very interesting! I do wonder if I might get that same breathy acoustic quality with something like the NS A-150 or one of the fully hollow Starfires...

When it comes to production dates I couldn't say, but I'd suspect that Frono is correct. I just use the catalogs and price-lists in my possession for research. Hans has the actual production logs from the factories so he's got much more accurate information.

As for the X135, I assume it still has the original gold-tone pickup in it. People online rave about them and I must say that my limited experience with them in my S73 has been fabulous. Some things that I would would assume without examining your guitars:
  • The X170s tone block will deaden the top so it will sound and react different than a "true" hollowbody
  • The pickups are different, so they'll sound different
  • The pots and tone capacitors may be different
Having written that I'm still kind of surprised that you'd describe the amplified sound as "bright" or "edgy" from a neck-pickup hollow-body guitar.
 

Sam Powrie

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Having written that I'm still kind of surprised that you'd describe the amplified sound as "bright" or "edgy" from a neck-pickup hollow-body guitar.

Thanks GAD for those observations. The differences I note between the X-170 and the DeArmond are not enormous but they are noticeable (to me anyway). The X-135 does indeed have what I think is the 'Gold Tone'pickup (see below) - it has 2 dimpled gold strips on the top surface, 2 rows of exposed pole-pieces and is marked 'DeArmond USA'.

I don't think my description of the sound as 'bright' and 'edgy' was particularly accurate - sounds like I'm talking about a telecaster! I play a bit of fingerstyle and the amplified tone of the X-135 has quite a bit in common with the acoustic sound of my little Larrivee 00-03. I'd characterise the latter as delivering a lot of higher frequency harmonics on all strings and in all positions. This gives the Larrivee guitar a 'breathy', crystaline presence and a clear and 'forward' sound, and I think this is what I was trying to get at in describing the X-135 - almost an 'acoustic' quality even when amplified. No doubt this has a lot to do with less restrained vibration of the top on the X-135 (which must also move the pickup a bit and lend a 'woody' quality).

I don't know enough about the HB-1 pickup (or pickups generally) to venture an opinion on its contribution, but no doubt it lends a character of its own as well. I was interested to note that you don't have a picture of the pickup on my X-135 in the pickup section of your site. Would this be because this pickup is actually Korean-made even though it's marked 'DeArmond USA'? Or are these HB pickups all the same under the skin?

Sam
 

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GAD

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Makes sense. I think I would describe what your describing as the X170 feeling a bit “deader” or the X135 feeling “livelier”. Maybe? It’s fun trying to describe timbre. :)
 
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I weighed my '54 X-440 -- with a Bigsby and a heavy copper Tru-Arc bridge, it's 7 pounds, 4 ounces. In its original configuration, that should put it around 6 pounds.
 

kakerlak

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I don't remember exactly, but aren't there some era/factory-level generalizations to be made on lighter vs heavier builds? I feel like seventies guitars, or maybe Westerly instruments as a whole tend to be the most heavily built? Not sure whether that's right or how they might compare against NY/NJ examples. Seems like the older stuff is a more lightly built, if my memory is right.

Walter and Hans know more than I do.
 
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Welcome Mate. I have a 96 X-170 that is a dead on twin for yours. One of my fondest possessions.
 

Sam Powrie

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Welcome Mate. I have a 96 X-170 that is a dead on twin for yours. One of my fondest possessions.

Good to hear. I concur on the treasured possession bit! This is actually the second that's passed through my hands - the first I bought some years ago from the USA. It was a later model & had a sunburst finish with (I think) chrome hardware. I think I needed to pay for my son's school fees or something silly like that so it was sold (to a highly regarded player in Brisbane). But the archtop bug had bitten and I luckily managed to buy this earlier, blonde one from a small shop in NYC at a very fair price. It's been cared for but well-used. The gold is fading away as I look at it & it has that indefinable, rather stale 'club' smell, but I love it. I'm entirely self-educated musically and a long, long way from being a competent player, but I enjoy & value a fine instrument and like my Guild! ;)
 

SFIV1967

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I am aware that the Korean-made Starfires (single and double cutaway) may go back to about 2015 though I'm not sure of exact time lines.


Ralf
 

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Unfortunately I'm selling the X-135, mainly because it's a bit big, but the sound it gets is very interesting! I do wonder if I might get that same breathy acoustic quality with something like the NS A-150 or one of the fully hollow Starfires...

I have a NS-Savoy 150A. It will sound very different than your 170, I'm thinking. I've heard the 150 described as a "one-trick pony" and I don't think that is inaccurate. But, it's a really nice trick. To me, it is one of the most unique sounds, due to the floating pickup. No tone knob, just a volume control. I really like the MIK guitars. I wish Guild never moved from there, because the MIC and MIM Guilds just aren't the same. Value for dollar, an MIK Guild is hard to beat.

I also have a new Aristocrat HH, and for a Les Paul styled guitar is it pretty light, but the 150A is still lighter. I have never put it on a scale, but Sweetwater is pretty good with these things, and they say its 6 lbs 5 oz, and I'd say that feels about right. I'm probably going to be putting the Aristocrat HH one up for sale. I am having a fret job done on it, and a real set-up (Sweetwater's setup was a bit lacking) and I will see if my opinion on it changes. But I'm just not bonding with that guitar.

After going back and forth several times, and even trying some other brands, I keep coming back to the Savoy because I do love the sound of the pickup, and I like the fact that it is lighter. When I play in a group, the Savoy sits in a place all of its own -- especially if I capo up to fret four or five. Then it just rings like a crystal flute.

It's at Stuart Day's -- the luthier I use -- and about to get a major update. I know as soon as I do this, the guitar will be pretty much un-sellable, but I've decided to just make this "my guitar." I'm having him flatten the neck radius to 12", put medium jumbo frets in it, and replace the plastic inlays with real MOP. From there, I'm not sure what else I will do to it, but I decided that it was almost my perfect guitar, and instead of waiting to find the it guitar, I would just make this one right for me.

I find myself actually missing the lil 150A. I'm going to be without it for a few more weeks yet. But I'm looking forward to getting it back with all of the mods.

Funny thing is about a year ago, I almost sold it. Then I plugged it in one day to my Mesa Bogie Rosette amp, and have never really put the guitar down since. That plus the Strymon Flint finally gave me the sound I was looking for. Simple, clean, with a touch of Trem sounds so nice with the Savoy. I love it now.
GuildSavoy.jpeg
 
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