Guild S-200 sighting on Ed Sullivan

lungimsam

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
753
Reaction score
238
Guild Total
1
This is a cool sighting on Sullivan , as it looks like they player was having technical probs in the beginning (from the house looks like) and I wonder what he was saying.
Also, cool use of swells and even playing overtop the fingerboard.
Note the paint removal by thumb near the pickups. I have noticed players back then had already reliced instruments and they could not have been so old. Must be rough handling on the road and hours of rehearsals.
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
20,139
Reaction score
2,838
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
Interesting.

Not all TV performances were live so we may be seeing someone who was not happy pantomiming cutting up for the camera. That said, a casual listen says the mix is different from the studio recording so if someone insists it is live I will not argue.

An example of "pantomime" from the Smothers Brothers


Note Casady's "mute".
 

walrus

Venerated Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
19,434
Reaction score
2,746
Location
Massachusetts
They often mimed everything but the vocals. Is Sebastian's guitar even plugged in?

walrus
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
20,139
Reaction score
2,838
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
They often mimed everything but the vocals. Is Sebastian's guitar even plugged in?

walrus

I think yes. In the beginning and at about 2:29 I can convince myself that I see a straight 1/4" phone jack plugged into the side (not top) and a cord coming from it.
 

walrus

Venerated Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
19,434
Reaction score
2,746
Location
Massachusetts
At the beginning of the video it looks like there's nothing there. Of course, the other question is - for all the equipment - plugged into what?

🙃

walrus
 

spoox

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
293
Reaction score
500
Ah, Steve Boone is playing piano instead of bass in that clip:
BOONEBASS.jpg

I took a girl to a Lovin' Spoonful concert on her birthday back in July of '67. Was looking forward to
seeing Zal and his S-200, but he'd been replaced by Jerry Yester by that point. Poor Jerry was booed
by the crowd amid yells of "Where's Zal? We want Zal!". Though a fine guitarist, Yester didn't have
Zal's zany personality and showmanship to offset Sebastian's often times cloying presence on stage.
 

spoox

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
293
Reaction score
500
"LMAO! I like John Sebastian, but that is an excellent assessment!"

I like him too--his songwriting is great, and I always liked his voice. However, at that concert he did this long preamble to a song
where he was basically lecturing the audience in the manner of a wise uncle or school teacher. The later Spoonful songs also lacked
something for me. The headliners were Simon and Garfunkel, so that made up for it!
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
30,823
Reaction score
2,236
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Well I guess somebody has to mention the swapped Gibbon PU's!
Which may well explain the chipped paint by the p/u ears. :)

Wait, on watching clip, suspect it's that mammoth thumb pick that's responsible.
At the beginning of the video it looks like there's nothing there. Of course, the other question is - for all the equipment - plugged into what?

🙃

walrus
Zally's definitely playing leads I don't recall ever hearing in the original. Re piano vs bass, think Sebastian's actually thumb-picking that extremely simple bass line, watch his thumb.

I think it's all live.
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
20,139
Reaction score
2,838
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
Zally's definitely playing leads I don't recall ever hearing in the original. Re piano vs bass, think Sebastian's actually thumb-picking that extremely simple bass line, watch his thumb.

I found what I thought was the original and I heard the same leads and swells for the spots I checked. But since ears and memory are both involved....
 

walrus

Venerated Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
19,434
Reaction score
2,746
Location
Massachusetts
I did some research on the internet (so take it with a small grain of salt) and the consensus seems to be Sullivan always wanted a live performance if he could get it. Occasionally allowed lip-synching, though.

Doesn't answer whether this particular performance was live or not, just an FYI.

walrus
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
20,139
Reaction score
2,838
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
I did some research on the internet (so take it with a small grain of salt) and the consensus seems to be Sullivan always wanted a live performance if he could get it. Occasionally allowed lip-synching, though.

Doesn't answer whether this particular performance was live or not, just an FYI.

walrus

I was thinking that a lot of the Sullivan shows I recall from watching the original broadcast was sync'd but I have not asked Uncle Google if my memory is correct. But live vocals to a backing track is a possibility I wasn't aware of so... But I am not motivated enough to extract the audio and try and use tools to compare.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
30,823
Reaction score
2,236
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
I did some research on the internet (so take it with a small grain of salt) and the consensus seems to be Sullivan always wanted a live performance if he could get it. Occasionally allowed lip-synching, though.

Doesn't answer whether this particular performance was live or not, just an FYI.

walrus
Right, was thinking that myself, how Jagger and Morrison got away with a couple of "no-no"'s..

As for using the theater PA? Seems like that'd actually be the best thing for the broadcast miking, they'd already have it dialed in for various situations..
I was thinking that a lot of the Sullivan shows I recall from watching the original broadcast was sync'd but I have not asked Uncle Google if my memory is correct. But live vocals to a backing track is a possibility I wasn't aware of so... But I am not motivated enough to extract the audio and try and use tools to compare.
I found what I thought was the original and I heard the same leads and swells for the spots I checked. But since ears and memory are both involved....
Yeah, a couple of parts were "standard" but thought I heard a couple of different licks from Zal.

There was also the issue that sometimes mono mixes of 45's differed from the stereo album versions, Beatles were noted for that, but don't know if that was true in '65 US when stereo wasn't the standard format yet. Point being that if it is a mono backing track, sometimes things are heard in the mono mix that got buried in stereo, which is what I have.

And yeah I haven't done a direct comparo yet either. 🤠
 

DrumBob

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
422
Reaction score
132
Location
northwest NJ
I'm quite sure that was totally live. Zal's guitar licks were a bit different than the what he did on the record, and I didn't hear a bass.
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,517
Reaction score
3,434
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
Ralf, just an FYI, my "nothing there" comment was about Sebastian's guitar, responding to post #4.
Oh yes, my bad! Sorry! I delete it above...

So coming back to the Les Paul, it's hard to see but in the first few seconds (like 3, 4, 5) you can see the guitar cable hanging down from the connector and moving around to the bottom, it is a white or light gray cable, so it is there but hard to see infront of that background.
Switch to full screen in the video and you see the cable in the video, in the screen prints it is indeed hard to see.

1631873862771.png 1631873982640.png 1631874187580.png

Ralf
 
Last edited:
Top