Guild F30- what's the bracing there?

[adorshki]

Fwiw, my two-brace F-30R is stamped Nov 1973 (two tone-bars south of the bridgeplate, and two small braces both east & west of the bridgeplate) - no F-112 marking.

Seems like the most probable explanation would be that Guild was coverting F-112 tops to the F-30’s 6-string configuration, based on sales demand or projections at a given moment in time.

Except that rims were finished before tops were mounted and if the neckblocks were stamped "F112" then I'd assume that meant they were suitable for a wider 12-string neck.
Unless they used the same block. (Your post caused me to clarify my earlier post above since that is possible, but doesn't seem likely.)
Anyway, it means that the whole body and not just the tops were diverted from 12-string use, if that's what was happening.
Another possibility occurs to me but it would require further research to confirm my memory of time frame and I don't have the luxury of the time at the moment:
"IIRC" the F112 got the Westerly mini-jumbo shape before the F30 did, perhaps these F30's marked with F-112 were rims or bodies ready for necks from the original F-112 outline which had already been replaced?
There was also the issue of the very slightly wider F30r lower bout width as cited in Hans' book, perhaps there was simply some balancing of matching tops and rims between the different bodies/tops in order to clear out the old stock as quickly as possible?

 

[bobouz]

Hmm - An interesting puzzle!

 

[adorshki]

Hmm - An interesting puzzle!

Why I'd really love to hear what Hans to say.
Although it occurs to me there may be no way to even "see" this in the production records and who knows if any of the folks he interviewed ever mentioned it?

 

[adorshki]

Welp,

I just checked the neck block on my 1973 F30 mahogany 6 String, and the neck block has F 112 stamped on it too! The neck block is so dark in color (looks as dark as the rosewood bridge plate), that the the black ink stamp was barely barely barely visible. I never knew that stamp was there all this time!

I've updated my signature accordingly:
1973 F-30 / F-112 6 String hybrid: "TANK-enstein"


Tommy

I'm only thinking it may not really be a "hybrid" since it wouldn't surprise me if they did in fact use the same body for both models for at least the period of time centered around the '72 -'73 dates cited so far.
It'd just be the way F30's were built if I'm correct.
For a real "full circle" moment, a couple of folks here have actually gone the other way and converted F112's to super-wide nut F30's (!)
The first guy Killdeer43 (Joe) even filled the bridge pin holes and re-drilled 'em to center the strings on the fretboard, mentioned here:.

F-112 questions

asking for a freind, ha. are they all long scale? is there any period short scale? it looks like the shape changed in the 70s it got more "round" like a Gibson jumbo, less like a F-20 or Martin 00. what does the change in shape signify? when did it occur? I don't have Volume 1 with me...

letstalkguild.com

Note Ralph cites some comments from Hans in that one, re F30's

The next guy was Bayoubengal a little more recently:

I bring you the Killdeer F-112-6 Part Deux!

I bring you the Killdeer F112-6 Part Deux! Veterans of this forum know about the conversion of Joe's (killdeer43) F112 from a 12 string to a six string. The reasoning behind it is that many of us love the 70's era Guild F30s for the tone and body shape (mahogany b/s) and they can be bought at...

letstalkguild.com

I'm just wondering if these hybrids can handle slightly heavier gauge strings with all this extra bracing in the top. Might be an unintentional perk for those who prefer slightly heavier gauge strings. Just a thought!

Tommy

Along with the beefier (if I'm right) neck block, suspect you may be right.
You just reminded me the 12's were long scale which has inherently higher tension too,
And now wondering if the bracing variations might be related to the change in scale length... it would require a change in the bridge location. When did they go long scale? With the F30R's of '73 with the F50 necks?
I'll have to check if it's in Hans' book tonight.

 

[bobouz]

Al - The F-30R had a chesterfield headstock & dot inlay from ‘73 to ‘75. Then it upgraded to F-50 ornamentation from ‘76 to ‘78, and then it was discontinued. Both versions have an ebony board & bridge, and are long scale.

I don’t think scale length was a factor re this bracing question. The F-30 was long scale from around 1970 to 1986 when it was discontinued. It then returned to it’s pre-1970 short scale length when both the F-30 & F-30R were reintroduced in 1998.

 

[Bonneville88]

Because it's always a good time to post photos on LTG,
'98 F-30R and '80 F-30, my two remaining Westerly F-30s.
As mentioned earlier, imo they don't really have a whole lot
in common
The 98 R has an ebony fretboard and bridge, body really is as
oddly shallow as it looks, not sure they could have gone with less!

 

[bobouz]

Okay, more picture sharing: 1973 F-30R

 

[Bonneville88]

BB, that's a beauty.

 

[bobouz]

BB, that's a beauty.

Yours, too! Small-jumbo bodies are my favorites, both in 15 & 16 inch versions.

 

[adorshki]

I don’t think scale length was a factor re this bracing question.

On re-read, I get it now: It was longscale for the entire period for which these bracing variations are being noted, right?

 

[bobouz]

On re-read, I get it now: It was longscale for the entire period for which these bracing variations are being noted, right?

Yes, according to the info I’ve got. On another side note, I looked at the bracing on my ‘74 F-40, and it’s got the three tone bar pattern (with three small braces east & west as well). Makes me wonder if this is more universally something Guild started going to with assorted models during their “bulking up” period.

Probably the only way to sort this out would be by examining a wide variety of examples from the ‘70s. Rather intriguing!