Guild action

dadroadie

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Hi to All,

I’m hoping to get some input on what would be a reasonable action on a Guild acoustic. I know I’m opening a can of worms but would like to get opinions from Guild owners and repair people that work on these GREAT guitars.

I have been doing minor repairs and setups for a lot of years with happy customers on my workmanship. I have done quite a few Gibson, Martin, and Guild acoustics and have always adjusted the action to the customers requested playing style or the lowest action available based on the guitars build. I recently had a customer that had brought in a 1987 Guild GF30 for a setup and checkup. He wanted a setup with the lowest possible action. The guitar had a high action of 8/64th on the bass and 6/64th on the treble at the 12th fret. I was able to get the action down to 6/64th on the bass side and 4.5 /64th on the treble by adjusting the truss rod (It’s now almost straight with just .004 at the 7th ) and humidifying the instrument. (It was really dried out!) . I always clean and polish the frets as part of the setup. The frets were checked and are level, with good crowns, but low. I did lower the height of the strings at the nut to a reasonable action at the first fret with no buzzing.

Here is the issue. The guitar plays GREAT with no buzzing on any frets and GREAT projection. The action ended up being 6/64th on the bass side and 4.5 /64th on the treble at the 12th fret. That’s from the 8/64th on the bass and 6/64th on the treble at the 12th fret when I received it. I didn’t have any room to lower the saddle because the saddle is right at the minimum height above the bridge. Any lower and it would lose the break angle and need a bridge shave or neck reset.

The customer claims that a Guild of this vintage should be able to achieve an action of 5/64th on the bass and 4/64th on the treble at the 12th fret. I tried to explain that every instrument is a bit different and not every guitar can be adjusted to a specific action height because of its characteristics. I said that I felt this was a very reasonable action for his guitar. While he loves the way the guitar sounds and everything else that I did on the instrument he wanted a full refund for the complete repair. I did some other touch up work besides the setup. Because I always give the customer the benefit of the doubt I did as he requested and did give him a full refund.

My question is the final action that I achieved, 6/64th on the bass side and 4.5 /64th on the treble at the 12th fret, considered a high action? Just trying to see if I’m crazy or the customer was being unreasonable.

Thanks to all dadroadie




dadroadie
 

GardMan

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I try to set up my Guilds at 7/64ths and 5/64ths... It suits my mix of strumming and finger picking.

IMO, you went above and beyond...
 

SFIV1967

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My question is the final action that I achieved, 6/64th on the bass side and 4.5 /64th on the treble at the 12th fret, considered a high action?
No.
In a vintage Guild owners manual from Westerly times Guild wrote for the 12th fret test:
On the low E string: The gap should be from .085" to .093" (5.5/64" to 6/64").
On the high E string: The gap should be .070" to .078" (4.5/64" to 5/64").
Mind those were factory specs for new guitars!

Taylor Guitars for instance say: "Our factory specs for action are 4/64-inches on the high E string and 6/64-inches on the low E."

So those are very normal values. Too bad having such customers...

Ralf
 

Westerly Wood

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The customer claims that a Guild of this vintage should be able to achieve an action of 5/64th on the bass and 4/64th on the treble at the 12th fret. I tried to explain that every instrument is a bit different and not every guitar can be adjusted to a specific action height because of its characteristics. I said that I felt this was a very reasonable action for his guitar. While he loves the way the guitar sounds and everything else that I did on the instrument he wanted a full refund for the complete repair. I did some other touch up work besides the setup. Because I always give the customer the benefit of the doubt I did as he requested and did give him a full refund.

dadroadie

I am going out on a limb and saying your customer is being unreasonable.
Based on your description, concern and passion above, I would totally have you work on my Guilds. If that encourages you any...
 

Br1ck

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Yes a jerk. He has probably learned that business people will give him his money back just to get rid of them. He'll move on to the next guy and pull the same stunt. Good thing the guitar wasn't in for a refret or neck reset. I follow Jerry Rosa's YouTube video. He told a story a while back of a mandolin he built, fabulous instruments, by the way. Over a two year period the customer complained multiple time about this or that, how the fretboard was all wrong, the intonationswas never right. The mandolin was sent back two or three times. The only problem Jerry could find was caused by the customer moving the bridge and causing finish damage. Jerry finally said he would gladly buy the mandolin back from him, he'd done all he could and there was nothing wrong with it. That wasn't enough. He finally quit communicating with the guy, and felt bad about it.
 

HeyMikey

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Your action height is right on the money. Perfect actually. If he wants it lower then time for a neck reset. Please don't shave the bridge! I'm sending two of mine out this Spring for neck resets because I can't get down to those numbers. z
 

geoguy

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Next time he wants your services, insist on doing a full re-fret (with non-refundable payment in advance).

That'll cut down on the string height above the frets . . . probably right into his preferred range!
 

dadroadie

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Thanks to everyone that replied.
I thought I was being honest in my assessment of a reasonable action .
I just wanted to be sure that folks that use and repair these GREAT guitars felt the same.
Regards to all!
dadroadie
 

Uke

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Hi to All,

I’m hoping to get some input on what would be a reasonable action on a Guild acoustic. I know I’m opening a can of worms but would like to get opinions from Guild owners and repair people that work on these GREAT guitars.

I have been doing minor repairs and setups for a lot of years with happy customers on my workmanship. I have done quite a few Gibson, Martin, and Guild acoustics and have always adjusted the action to the customers requested playing style or the lowest action available based on the guitars build. I recently had a customer that had brought in a 1987 Guild GF30 for a setup and checkup. He wanted a setup with the lowest possible action. The guitar had a high action of 8/64th on the bass and 6/64th on the treble at the 12th fret. I was able to get the action down to 6/64th on the bass side and 4.5 /64th on the treble by adjusting the truss rod (It’s now almost straight with just .004 at the 7th ) and humidifying the instrument. (It was really dried out!) . I always clean and polish the frets as part of the setup. The frets were checked and are level, with good crowns, but low. I did lower the height of the strings at the nut to a reasonable action at the first fret with no buzzing.

Here is the issue. The guitar plays GREAT with no buzzing on any frets and GREAT projection. The action ended up being 6/64th on the bass side and 4.5 /64th on the treble at the 12th fret. That’s from the 8/64th on the bass and 6/64th on the treble at the 12th fret when I received it. I didn’t have any room to lower the saddle because the saddle is right at the minimum height above the bridge. Any lower and it would lose the break angle and need a bridge shave or neck reset.

The customer claims that a Guild of this vintage should be able to achieve an action of 5/64th on the bass and 4/64th on the treble at the 12th fret. I tried to explain that every instrument is a bit different and not every guitar can be adjusted to a specific action height because of its characteristics. I said that I felt this was a very reasonable action for his guitar. While he loves the way the guitar sounds and everything else that I did on the instrument he wanted a full refund for the complete repair. I did some other touch up work besides the setup. Because I always give the customer the benefit of the doubt I did as he requested and did give him a full refund.

My question is the final action that I achieved, 6/64th on the bass side and 4.5 /64th on the treble at the 12th fret, considered a high action? Just trying to see if I’m crazy or the customer was being unreasonable.

Thanks to all dadroadie




dadroadie
You sound like a very conscientious and competent guy with regard to guitar repair. Maybe too generous with this particular customer.
 

Guildedagain

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Life is a lesson.

"The customer claims that a Guild of this vintage should be able to achieve an action of 5/64th on the bass and 4/64th on the treble at the 12th fret".

Sure, when the guitar is brand new or still under warranty with the correct set of strings, and most people barely know what their factory strings were. And if they do, the first thing they do is put bigger ones on as if volume makes up for bad playing.

This scenario has played out thousands of times, in print on the internet.

"I put two bigger strings on my guitar until old age and infirmity caught up with me, by then my guitar needed a neck reset, which it would have needed anyway." The last part is to make yourself feel better for putting bigger strings on your guitar than it was designed for.

Neck angle/neck reset?

Don't give work away, sell more ;]

Because I've been totally screwed over by the local luthier I'm not outsourcing any more guitar work. He did bad work, took way too long, charged too much, but the work was bad so he had to redo it, but made it worse, because he had not followed the simple instructions I sent along with the job in the first place.

And then he insulted my guitar. Which is the worst thing you could do, I think that might have hurt worse than his bad work.

So all guitar issues have to be dealt with by me only, and this is how I would deal with this one.

Lighter strings, like Silk n Steel, lower the string tension will lower the action.

And this; From Guild's fabulous owner's manuals of days past; "High humidity causes the back and top swell, raising action. Low humidity causes the back and top to shrink, lowering action".

You can control action with humidity. In fact. I've seen guitars come out of the case with the strings slammed right down on the frets from dryness, freaky.

When you have two options, one costs $700 and the other $7 for different strings, I go with the strings. And humidity.

By this point in the game, some guitars have bowed necks to the point where it's permanently bowed even without strings on it.

Guitars like can have the necks heated and reflattened in a jig, maybe, but could also just creep back. It's pretty hard to undo the effects of twenty years of high tension on a skinny piece of wood.
 

Br1ck

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The tech that rebuilt my D 35, well most people think he's a jerk, because he tells the truth with no sugar coating. If you want a setup on an acoustic guitar from him, you are going to get a fret level. Period. He has more business than he can handle. He would have told your customer he would not touch that guitar without a re fret at minimum, and probably a neck re set. But when you get the guitar back, you forget what it cost pretty quickly.
 
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