Guild 12-string history

[lpdeluxe]

I was at a friend's house and we were listening to Reverend Gary Davis and pretty soon he had his Guild 212 out and was playing along. Even with old strings, it sounded terrific, and I said Guild really had the 12-string figured out. That led to speculation about why and when Guild started making 12s, and how they managed to set new standards for that instrument.

I understand Gibson introduced the B45-12 in 1962. Gibson, in the McCarty years, was always aware of trends in music and I imagine they knew of Stefan Grossman and others' use of the old Stella 12s, although that's speculation on my part.

Guild started 12-string production in 1963, and immediately dominated the market -- I remember back around 1970 all I saw were 212XLs around Austin, TX. A couple of years later I knew a gentleman in Northern California who had a Martin D-12-28, but that wasn't introduce until the late '60s.

Does anyone have any insight to offer?

By the way, I'm an agnostic: I've owned a Yamaha and a Ventura acoustic 12, and a '67 Ric 366/12, but 6 strings suit me better.

 

[12 string]

You've got it about right, lp. I can add that the first Martin 12er, other than a few one-offs, was the D-12 20, appearing in late '64-early '65, followed by the D-12 35 about a year later.

When it comes to 12 string guitars and/or Rev. Gary Davis I'm a true believer!

' Strang

 

[lpdeluxe]

Wow. That's quite a list of Guilds in your signature.

The only fan I've heard of for the Gibson is Leo Kottke, who in an interview said he cruised music stores while on tour to look for the B45-12s, but that may have been due to his familiarity with them (no knock on LK!).

My interest is not who was first, but who was pre-eminent. Martins (at least the ones I saw) were 12-fret dreadnaughts, and the Gibsons were thin on the ground. Only Guild took the concept and ran with it. Arguably, Taylor has replaced them in the public mind, but we were looking at the 212's deep body and other meaningful solutions to the problems of making an acoustic box respond to its owner's strokes. Guild 12s have a commanding voice, which I think a Taylor does not.

I've ordered a book on Guild history and perhaps that will answer some questions. That 212, by the way, is aging into an incredible instrument. Wisht I could get along with 'em. Its owner is a long-time bass player and he's able to exploit its voice.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Yes, Taylor 12 strings have great playable necks and they do keep in tune better than any other 12 string that I have played but!
They don't come close to that great Guild 12 string sound!

 

[Scratch]

I keep a Taylor 12er here at the office. As TMG points out, the Taylor necks are easier to negotiate, but when it comes to serious 12er banging, it simply can't compete with any Guild 12er in the corral.

 

[lpdeluxe]

I see by the website that Guild is down to 2 or 3 12s, including the F412 and an acoustic-electric. That's a shame. Guild has suffered a bit by its corporate owners following Droge's death. Nobody seems to know what to do with it. Fender gave it a pretty fair shot, judging by the earlier Fender-era catalogs: archtops, Bennedetto designs, twelves, electrics, and now they're just making the flat top line, and curtailed at that.

 

[dayuhan]

I see by the website that Guild is down to 2 or 3 12s, including the F412 and an acoustic-electric. That's a shame. Guild has suffered a bit by its corporate owners following Droge's death. Nobody seems to know what to do with it. Fender gave it a pretty fair shot, judging by the earlier Fender-era catalogs: archtops, Bennedetto designs, twelves, electrics, and now they're just making the flat top line, and curtailed at that.

That may not be altogether a bad thing... I'd rather see them focus on a limited flattop line and make them really well than spread the brand all over the map and end up compromising on quality. But of course that's from the prejudiced perspective of someone who prefers flattops...

 

[lpdeluxe]

I hate to think that there will be no more Guild archtops. I have a couple of friends who don't exactly collect, it's more like Guilds gravitate toward them. One (whom I spoke of earlier) has a great ca. 1982 F212 (as I learned Saturday, when we got together for our weekly boogie) and a 32" scale B4N, I think it is: a nicely made cutaway acoustic bass guitar with onboard electronics, and the other has a rotating selection of D-sized six strings, never less than one and never more than three, probably.

I like diversity, and the loss of the majority of Guild models is like watching the extinction of animal species.

 

[chazmo]

Well, we'll see, lp... Fender is moving USA Guild production (yet again), and most of us are concerned about the fate of their new products.

Anyway, welcome aboard! Nice to read your perspective on 12-string development. It's very cool that some of you guys were around and playing in this era (I didn't start learning guitar until the '70s)... It is interesting that Guild became a recognized leader so early and so quickly.

 

[6L6]

The only fan I've heard of for the Gibson is Leo Kottke,

You'd have to include Gordon Lightfoot in the Gibson 12 string fan club. That's all he's ever played.

When it comes to 12 string tone, Guild just wins. That said, I've played many a Martin D-12-20 that also sounded great.

6

'06 F-412 (sadly, For Sale)
'06 D-40BJ
'06 D-55
'74 D-40