FRANZ PUP X175 VS. CE100D - TONE DIFFERENCES

[matsickma]

Hi LTG gang,

I am interested in your views on the sonic differences of the X175 as compared to the CE100D. I am assuming both have Franz pups and are late 1950ish models.

I have owned a X375 and currently own a CE100D (one of BillyD's CE's I picked up last year).

The CE has a the smaller body and short depth that the X375. The CE has a thin maple ply top the X375 had a thicker spruce (ply?) top.

That is my background reference point.

I got to tell you that BillyD is absolutely right in trying to corner the market on these guitars. The CE with Franz are outstanding playing and sounding guitars. I really love mine. It shows some of its years but is a really easy guitar to handle. Truly the best limited known secret around.

I sold the X375 a few years ago because I had squeal problems with the bridge PUP (before I knew about wax potting) and I wasn't crazy about the sound options from the switch plate. I would have perfered more volume and tone knobs. The X375 was definitely a notch up in quality and acoustic tone over the CE but the tone of an electric CE blew it away for blues and single coil rock.

I like the idea of a X175 with Franz but have a strong feeling I found my Franz "soulmate" in the CE.

Walter feel free to lend your experiance on this item.

M

 

[valcotone]

M - Well, I have both a 1960 CE-100DP Capri and a 1959 X-175B Manhattan (the one I'm unfortunately selling). The Capri has a maple top and the Manhattan is spruce, I think that's the main construction difference. The wiring harness is different in that the Manhattan has dual-pots and extra caps in the tone circuitry. They actually sound very similar to each other and both have their strengths. The Manhattan seems to be a little smoother and more polite and sweeter, while the Capri is a little more aggressive and maybe a little louder.

Here are a couple of clips of my Capri :
clip 1 - 1960 Guild Capri - demo http://www.kilback.net/tunes/capri_br1_demo.mp3
clip 2 - 1960 Guild Capri - live solo http://www.kilback.net/tunes/capri_br1_blockparty_solo.mp3

And of a much better player with a '56 X-175, same model I'm selling:
clip 3 - Twisters - Hurc's Hop http://www.kilback.net/tunes/11_Twisters-live-1997_HuresHop.mp3

I don't have any clips of my X-175B handy.

cheers,
Sean

 

[Walter Broes]

Hey Matsickma,

I'm finding big differences even between my '59 and '62 X175's. The '59 has a smaller, shallower body, really not that much larger than a CE100, but soft cutaway.

I have two 62's that are six months apart, but almost identical - much bigger and deeper bodies, with a spruce ply top that's at least twice as thick as the 59's. despite the bigger size, the 62's are tighter, stiffer, less "acoustic" feeling guitars than the 59.
Still lots of typical "thump" and punchy hollowbody midrange, and they work perfect for my semi-loud rootsrock band with a Super Reverb or similar volume amp on six, sometimes combined with monitors on a bigger stage.

Can't do that with the much lighter, much more "acoustic" feeling 59, which is much happier with a slightly smaller amp, and quieter band, and can't handle nearly as much volume as the tighter '62's.

I'd like to know if the same goes for Capri's. My good friend Mischa den Haring from excellent Dutch Roots band "http://www.t-99.com" has both 62 and 66 CD100's, Franz pickups and small 'buckers respectively, and both have the same thickness tops as my 62' X175's - but maple. (and both are absolutely wonderful guitars, I even like the '66 a lot, while I usually have no use for humbuckers)

I think the top thickness makes the difference, not so much the "material" : I remember Hans saying that Guild's spruce tops had a spruce outer ply back then, with the other layers not necessarily the same wood - the same might apply to Guild's maple tops (?).

I've GAS-ing for a beater CE100 to restore and refinish in black, and regret not getting a stripped gutted one on Ebay some years ago. I'm pretty spoiled already with Guild archtops, but a CE is still on my list, I think I'd love the slightly smaller size on stage, and playing my friend's guitars some, they're not all thàt different from what I'm used to.

No experience with 350's/375's..

 

[Walter Broes]

Did I kill this thread with my biblical length post?

 

[valcotone]

I'm still listening, your worship. :lol:

 

[Default]

I was going to kill a fatted calf for you, Walter, but the calves are kinda lean here at the moment.

 

[billydlight]

Obviously a group of learned Men. As everyone Knows I am the CE hoarder. They are the best and I have had them all. Walter I might have the perfect beater CE for you. email me if you are interested.

Matsickma: I am glad you are digging the CE. Makes you want to get a few more don't it? (don't get any funny ideas) :wink:

 

[valcotone]

Billy,

Thanks for your post. How would you compare the tone of the CE-100DP vs. X-175 models (both with Franz')?

Also, do you know if the CE-100 Capris have any weird capacitors in the circuit? Maybe hiding on the pots, switch, or pickups?

Thanks!
-Sean

 

[billydlight]

I have both. The CE snarls more where the X guitars have a rounder sound. Also the way the CEs are built the bridge pickup is RIGHT on the strings, like you could barely get a business card in there. The Xs have the bridge pickup a lot further away from the strings.

They both sound great but for my brand of Rock N Roll The CE's are the Sh!t 8)


Also my CEs did not have any Cap weirdness, all of my X's did. I currently have my main CE wired so the pots are bypassed, it goes from the switch right to the jack.

 

[Walter Broes]

email sent!