Floating a fixed pickup

wdboland

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I was watching video a while ago, and no I can't find it anymore. But, the person was chronicling a tour they had taken at the Heritage Factory. Their claim was that a luthier at the factory told them that if you raised the pickups on a fixed pickup arch top, think X-500, X-175, etc., with a small washer you would essentially float that pickup. The idea now is that the top can vibrate more, and open up the sound. Now I realize that anything attached to the top inhibits it from vibrating.

So my questions to everyone are:

1. Has anyone else heard of this?
2. Have you tried it?
3. Do you think it made a difference?

I tried this, this afternoon on my X-175. It seemed to be more lively when played acoustically. When I played through a amp I think it was a bit brighter. Also, and I don't understand this. The guitar didn't seem to be as prone to feedback as before.

--Wayne
 

matsickma

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Research the George Barnes guitar model for more info on this midel and concept.
George Barnes theory was uf you floated the pickup you would reduce the feedback of the guitar. He also may have wanted the soundboard to be more lively.

One of our LTG folks actually knew George Barnes and he attested that the concept of floating pickup and feedback reduction wasn't as effective as anticipated.
To my knowledge a guitar that is planned to be primairly an acoustic instrument like a A150 has a different sound board support structure than one planned to be and electric model like a X150. That being the case the presence of the pickup may not be the mechanism to change the vibration of the sound board significantly.

M
 

Nuuska

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I do not know - but have good reason to believe - that if you simply insert washers under pups, nothing will change in top vibration, because the pups are still mounted with those screws. Actually something changes - you have added the weight of the washers to dampen the top even more.

More analyzing makes me notice, that the washers let a small space exist between pup and top inbetween mounting screws - so if the top is flexible, it might have some new available directions of vibration.

This leads to question - how to float the pups without adding weight to the top ? A frame supported from edge + fingerboard + bridge ?
 

SFIV1967

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Research the George Barnes guitar model for more info on this midel and concept.
George Barnes theory was uf you floated the pickup you would reduce the feedback of the guitar. He also may have wanted the soundboard to be more lively.
Here are pictures, mounting explained by Hans:

1613419473101.png


1613419026181.png


Same concept used by Carlo Greco in his custom one owned by LTG member nmiller:

1613419200428.png


Ralf
 

Nuuska

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OK - now that definitively isolates them from top. Reading op lead me to think something else. . .
 

wdboland

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Thanks everyone, I did some looking at the George Barnes guitar. An interesting concept. My research found that there were only about 11 made. I guess they were cost prohibitive. Thanks to Ralf for the pictures of the pickup and mounting hardware, and the link to Han's explanation of the assembly.

Nuuska, the weight of the washers would be negligible, and you are correct it creates a space between the pickup ring and the top. As I am type this I am wondering if the space is too small, would it creat a buzz? There are also a lot of other things attached to the top that will inhibit vibration. Volume/Tone pots, selector switch, master volume pot, binding on the F holes, pick guard, and the bridge. The George Barnes guitar seemed to have minimized this.

Thanks again everyone; --Wayne
 

matsickma

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Musicians often have insights on what makes a guitar sound a certain way. Rather then the Frankenstein Strat approach of EVH some of earlier concepts may have led to disagreements between artist and luthier. If I recall correctly Johnny Smith wasn't happy in the way the top sound board of his Guild model guitar was fabricated and refused to endorse the model. I think it eventually became known as the Artist Award model. Acoustically complexity eventually gives way to the electronics and amplifier influence on the overall sound.
I saw EH just came out with a new distortion pedal called the something like the "Sliced or Ripped Speaker". Apparently to mimmic the way the Kinks sliced a amp speaker when they recorded "You really got me".

M
 
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