F412 vs. F212XL

[steverok]

OK, all things being equal, i.e., jumbo body, Guild, 12 strings, awesome, how do these two compare in terms of sound? Would the F412/JF65-12/JF30-12 be brighter, crisper, louder, more dynamic? Would an F212XL be expected to have a richer bottom end and midrage, with more bell-like articulation? Which do you prefer? Never owned both models, so I am looking for those with first-hand knowledge. Thanks guys, peace.

 

[guildzilla]

Two years of GAS took me through a bunch of Guild 12 strings, and the one on my keeper list is an F-212XL.

It has better balance than the maple body 12'ers, and a very warm sound. Big volume from the big mahogany body. Thrilled to have it. But the fact that it's the keeper has as much to do with getting it for a terrific price, its great condition and how it fits with my other guitars.

I had several JF-30-12's, as well as a '74 F-412, which was the most amazing of all the 12 strings (though I couldn't afford to keep it long term). I had three Westerly JF-30-12's, which I found to be very consistent and a degree better than the two Coronas of the same model I had. All had the arched back. Loud with great projection. Bright, shimmering and shiny sound. IMO, the bass was solid, but when playing full chords, the shine of the trebles were the dominant feature of the tone.

I would have been more than happy to keep any of the Westerly JF-30-12's. Each had the same tonal characteristics of the F-412, but just a hair behind in volume, complexity and range. I'm convinced that particular F-412 was a pretty special and exceptional instrument.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Which Guild 12 strings have a flat and not arched back?
How many different Rosewood 12 string models have there been?

 

[chazmo]

Rosewood:
F-612 - 18" jumbo
F-512 / JF-55-12 / F-412 special (1967?) - 17" jumbo, based on F-50R
F-312 - 16" lower bout.
G-312 - dread, based on D-50


(I must be forgetting some, TMG)

 

[steverok]

Which Guild 12 strings have a flat and not arched back?
How many different Rosewood 12 string models have there been?

Umm, I see no mention of rosewood in the original post.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

That's because I'm not the OP!!!
Just full of questions and good at veering. :wink:

 

[12 string]

I never have a problem with a thread veer because you can always veer it back.

I have both instruments: a JF-65 12 and an F-212XL. My maple Guild is the best of all my guitars for very low tuning, down to C or B. Maple offers clarity which counteracts the muddiness which creeps in as we go to lower tunings. If you are going to be playing through microphones a lot maple may have fewer feedback problems. Beyond that I think it's a matter of taste. I don't know that either of them would be significantly louder than the other, though the mahogany may offer more colorful sound.

Is there a reason why you're not considering rosewood?

Chazmeaux, you forgot the 16" F-312.

' Strang

 

[chazmo]

[ ... ]Chazmeaux, you forgot the 16" F-312.

' Strang

What was I thinking?!?! Thanks, 'Strang, I fixed the list. That's one I'd love to get my hands on an F-312 someday. Think any of the GF models were done up in 12s?

 

[guildzilla]

No GF-12'ers, Chazmo. But the GF era (1987-1990) is same time as the intro of the JF-30-12 and the rename of the F-412 to JF-65-12.

 

[chazmo]

No GF-12'ers, Chazmo. But the GF era (1987-1990) is same time as the intro of the JF-30-12 and the rename of the F-412 to JF-65-12.

Excellent, zilla!!!

So, let's list the maple 12ers too. I think this is a pretty small list! Am I missing anything? Is it really only two models (both 17" jumbos)????:
JF-30-12 - 17" jumbo, based on the JF-30
F-412 / JF-65-12, 17" jumbo, based on the F-50