Does 4.8k indicate a need to rewind?

[AlohaJoe]

I'm looking at a '61 CE100 w a Franz pup that reads 4.8k. Does that sound like a candidate for a rewind or is that fairly normal? It sounds pretty low to me but I have no idea what a old Franz should read.

 

[john_kidder]

I have a pair o' Franz's (from a '56 T-100D) in my pile o' parts - they both show 4.5 Kohms.

I seem to remember that Lindy Fralin told me that's about what he winds when he's trying to recreate a Franz, Gibson P90s run higher.

Billydlight or Walter will know best.

 

[john_kidder]

I have a pair o' Franz's (from a '56 T-100D) in my pile o' parts - they both show 4.5 Kohms.

Whoa there. Thought that seemed low - picked up another ohmeter. Now they're 5.6 on the neck and 5.8 on the bridge. Still recall Lindy saying they always measured lower than P90s (for which he specs 6-10K) but perhaps 4.8K is too low after all.

Here's a link to Lindy - he's the man: Fralin Pickups - P90 Replacements

 

[mellowgerman]

i believe the ole dynasonics were only 2k weren't they?

 

[Chris Metcalfe]

Hi
The franzes on my 56 x500 read 6.9k each, if it's any help. But I don't think a 4.8k reading necessarily indicates a rewind -that's usually only necessary if the reading is very low indeed, in ohms ( shorted) or very high indeed, in megohms ( open or intermittent). It seems from various posts on this board that they can vary from 5 to even 12k, and still be intact. Jason Lollar told me that they average out at about 5 to 6k, so these aren't too far off average spec.

Makes you wonder about quality control at the franz facility... did they just use whatever wire was available that week?? Or maybe the winder needed better glasses.......or maybe they thought it didn't matter anyway. Who'd have guessed then we'd all be here talking about it in 09?? ''These here 'lectric geetars...just this year's fad...I'm tellin' yer, wait 'til accordions make thur come-back''....( wait, maybe that's Southern, not Yankee??....put me straight, someone, I'm English....)

ps those damnyankee etc posts in a recent thread really made me smile......
chris

 

[Walter Broes]

4.8 K is perfectly normal, don't mess with them! Ohm readings do not say everything about a pickup, let the strat guys and Gibson PAF guys obsess over those. Don't forget there are two powerful alnico magnets under that coil, making up at least half of the sound and punch of those pickups.

DeArmonds tend to have much higher ohm readings - between 10 and 14 (!!!)K is not out of the ordinairy for those.
Franzes are an entirely different animal.

 

[Chris Metcalfe]

Walter makes a very good point, and let me just back it up with another example. I have a dearmond 1100 rhythm chief pickup on my guild AA, and the winding reads a huge 17k. But the dearmond, with its weak rubber magnet, doesn't sound as loud as my (6k) franzes, with their alnico magnets. So, to reiterate, the reading of the winding alone means very little, apart from the generalisation that the lower the reading, the brighter the tone ( not always, but generally..).

Just to make the point even more, the charlie christian (gibson pickup) reads only 3k, but puts out more voltage than many humbuckers, because of the magnets and the massive iron blade. It's ultimately about the tone, in the end.
Don't worry about those franzes!!
chris

 

[jp]

Joe,

Here are specs from my two sets of 1959s:

bridge/neck
4.81 / 4.89
6.20 / 7.79

In reality, I couldn't really tell a difference (one is now sold) when A/B'ing the two side by side. For more discussion, check out the Franz Reference Post.

 

[teleharmonium]

i believe the ole dynasonics were only 2k weren't they?

Nope, you're probably thinking of the modern "2K" product which is so named as a reference to the old model 2000; neither name is related to the coil resistance (and the 2K bears only a superficial resemblance to the old Dynas).

Just to echo the above, if you have a pickup that has some shorted turns but still shows continuity, produces audible output, and yet needs a rewind, you'll most likely see very low DC resistance across the coil, like well under 1000 ohms.

Also I will add that some of the best sounding pickups I've ever heard had less wire on the coils than would now be expected, like in the 2.5-4k range, and they didn't have magnets as large and strong as the ones used by Fransch.

 

[valcotone]

I think the pickup is fine... I have 4 Franz' here:

1960 - Pickups measure 4.95K (neck) and 5.02K (bridge)
1954 - Pickups measure 6.9K (neck), and 6.6K (bridge)

I definitely agree that the dc-resistance isn't everything... I have some DeArmond pickups that were featured on old Harmony guitars and they can read about 3.5K but they hammer the front end of an amp just fine.

But I think if you had two Franz pickups and one measured 4K and the other was 7K, the 7K may be a little stronger sounding and maybe not quite as bright as the 4K. All other things remaining consistent of course.