D-25 - a couple of tuning questions

[earowe]

Hi folks,

I'm playing a 1980 D-25CH which I've owned since last summer, when it beat up my old Fender Gemini III and stole its lunch money. I love the tone I'm getting, but I do have a couple of questions about ways to stay in tune better.

My tuners appear to be original, so they're 25+ years old. Mostly they're in great shape, but the tuner for the 'D' string (actually C, dropped a whole note) is pretty rough in its movement. It holds tune just fine, but it scrapes unpleasantly when turned. The tuners are open-back, three on a base-plate, and I've tried using a light touch of graphite on the gear, and inside where the peg goes through the headstock, but I don't see any improvement. I wouldn't mind replacing the machines, but I'd be obliged if anyone had advice on possible fixes... or preferred replacements.

On a related topic: I mentioned above that I'm tuned a whole-note low, to DGCFAD. This is a tuning that I've only started using recently, but I'm finding that it helps me a lot in matching my kinda limited vocal range. It's been working well for me, except I'm noticing that getting in tune is a little harder at the lower string tension.

I've been wondering if it would be safe to try bringing up the tension a little with heavier strings, but I'm honestly a bit scared to try - my Ovation 12-string is already in need of a neck reset due to poor judgement in that area before I knew enough to be cautious. I don't want to repeat that mistake, but it seems like maybe it's not such a bad idea.

Running the numbers through an online string tension calculator, it looks like my current setup (Markley Alchemy GoldPhos Light) is pulling 158 lbs at EADGBE, and 125 lbs when dropped to DGCFAD. Switching to GoldPhos Medium would bring up tension to 192 lbs tuned normally, but only 153 lbs at DGCFAD. Am I reading that right? It seems like it should be okay, but I sure can't afford to send another instrument to the injured-reserve list.

Thanks everybody!

- Eric

 

[earowe]

Hi folks,

I'm playing a 1980 D-25CH which I've owned since last summer, when it beat up my old Fender Gemini III and stole its lunch money. I love the tone I'm getting, but I do have a couple of questions about ways to stay in tune better.

My tuners appear to be original, so they're 25+ years old. Mostly they're in great shape, but the tuner for the 'D' string (actually C, dropped a whole note) is pretty rough in its movement. It holds tune just fine, but it scrapes unpleasantly when turned. The tuners are open-back, three on a base-plate, and I've tried using a light touch of graphite on the gear, and inside where the peg goes through the headstock, but I don't see any improvement. I wouldn't mind replacing the machines, but I'd be obliged if anyone had advice on possible fixes... or preferred replacements.

On a related topic: I mentioned above that I'm tuned a whole-note low, to DGCFAD. This is a tuning that I've only started using recently, but I'm finding that it helps me a lot in matching my kinda limited vocal range. It's been working well for me, except I'm noticing that getting in tune is a little harder at the lower string tension.

I've been wondering if it would be safe to try bringing up the tension a little with heavier strings, but I'm honestly a bit scared to try - my Ovation 12-string is already in need of a neck reset due to poor judgement in that area before I knew enough to be cautious. I don't want to repeat that mistake, but it seems like maybe it's not such a bad idea.

Running the numbers through an online string tension calculator, it looks like my current setup (Markley Alchemy GoldPhos Light) is pulling 158 lbs at EADGBE, and 125 lbs when dropped to DGCFAD. Switching to GoldPhos Medium would bring up tension to 192 lbs tuned normally, but only 153 lbs at DGCFAD. Am I reading that right? It seems like it should be okay, but I sure can't afford to send another instrument to the injured-reserve list.

Thanks everybody!

- Eric

 

[Mr. P ~]

I expect that Hans Moust will respond with some advice which has always been very worthwhile for me. He has a nice collection of vintage parts for sale here:
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
You may want to check and be sure the "bushing" for that tuner is seated completely, if it has worked loose it can allow the post to "wobble". Most open back models have a screw that holds the gear onto the bottom of the string post that can get loose.

dklsplace space has a nice supply of parts as well, so if he doesn't respond to this post look him up in the memberlist and get in touch.

You could just by a set of Waverly's.
:wink:

 

[Mr. P ~]

I expect that Hans Moust will respond with some advice which has always been very worthwhile for me. He has a nice collection of vintage parts for sale here:
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
You may want to check and be sure the "bushing" for that tuner is seated completely, if it has worked loose it can allow the post to "wobble". Most open back models have a screw that holds the gear onto the bottom of the string post that can get loose.

dklsplace space has a nice supply of parts as well, so if he doesn't respond to this post look him up in the memberlist and get in touch.

You could just by a set of Waverly's.
:wink:

 

[earowe]

You may want to check and be sure the "bushing" for that tuner is seated completely, if it has worked loose it can allow the post to "wobble". Most open back models have a screw that holds the gear onto the bottom of the string post that can get loose.

You could just by a set of Waverly's.
:wink:

Good advice about the bushing, I'll have to check that. I think the screws are all okay, but I'll double-check them as well.

Also - I'm entirely willing to budget for a set of Waverlys, but I haven't heard enough user reports to know if there would be an actual difference in performance. They're certainly pretty.

I don't suppose you, or one of the other good folks here, might know the peghole diameter of a D-25? It would be a drag to order up some nice new machines, then discover they don't fit right.

Thanks again!

- Eric

 

[earowe]

You may want to check and be sure the "bushing" for that tuner is seated completely, if it has worked loose it can allow the post to "wobble". Most open back models have a screw that holds the gear onto the bottom of the string post that can get loose.

You could just by a set of Waverly's.
:wink:

Good advice about the bushing, I'll have to check that. I think the screws are all okay, but I'll double-check them as well.

Also - I'm entirely willing to budget for a set of Waverlys, but I haven't heard enough user reports to know if there would be an actual difference in performance. They're certainly pretty.

I don't suppose you, or one of the other good folks here, might know the peghole diameter of a D-25? It would be a drag to order up some nice new machines, then discover they don't fit right.

Thanks again!

- Eric

 

[ce blues]

howdy,

my D25 is a bit older than yours (a '72) but I am very aware of the problem regarding the crappy stock tuners on these guitars.... after a few years, I replaced mine (keeping the original parts, of course) and putting a decent set of Grover rotomatics on the guitar. I use my D25 for slide playing so I am very familiar with the problems associated with multiple tunings both above and below standard. I do a bunch of elmore james tunes in open "E" (yes purists, I am well aware that the great one played in open D....lower than standard), which requires that I tune #5, #4 and the #3 strings upwards of a whole or half step. I play in open E for a couple reasons, foremost of which is that the key of D is either too darned low for my vocal range or impossibly high (I must work within the limitations of my vocal ability). the second reason is that I also do a lot of muddy waters' songs and his tuning for the '50s was open "E" (a key that I can sing in with ease)....so open E represents my compromise for performing without needing to drag six guitars onto the bandstand (I can get by with three).

so, excusing my ramble (please), you might think about spending around $40 for a set of new tuners with a bit more reliable gearing to hold your baby in tune for you. just my $0.02, of course.
ce