D-20 Oxnard...Opinions?

Lowell

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Just got a line on a California-built (2020) D-20 (burst). I have a Guild OM 'hog, but would really like a dread, as well. Unfortunately, I've found the YouTube reviews are basically advertisements, not "reviews". A reviewer on ZZounds claimed to have problems with the neck bending...What can ya'll tell me about the D-20?
 

richardp69

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I have one and think it is superb. I love the warm, balanced tone of an all Hog Dreadnaught. I like mine every bit as well as any of the Westerly D 25''s I've had the pleasure to own. No problem with binding on my guitar or anything else thus far.
 

Westerly Wood

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I like the old ones from late 60s, early 70s, those D25 flatbacks are real gems. I hear the newer ones are nice as well. I just prefer older.
 
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I bought one a couple years ago and it's terrific. Rich tone, great playability, no issues with the neck or anything else.
 

midnightright

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Am I missing something, or have they changed the specs to the more favorable (amongst some of the "masses,") 1 3/4 " nut width, as I have seen cited on I believe it was Amazon & Musician's Friend - as well as some ads, maybe?
 

midnightright

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And now I'm even more confused--this is just one person's review, I realize--but if true; then it is not only the 1 3/4 " nut, but also a genuine dovetail neck joint? Perhaps my memory fails to serve me here, but I thought we'd discussed this sometime before, and the consensus was that, it was not?
 

chazmo

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midnight, I think your memory is correct. I think we concluded this was a mortise and tenon joint, not a dovetail. I looked at the specs listed on guildguitars.com for both D-20 and M-20, and the joint isn't mentioned.

I also thought the finish was was not NCL, but the specs say satin NCL.

Bottom line, I'm not trusting my memory here either. :)
 

adorshki

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midnight, I think your memory is correct. I think we concluded this was a mortise and tenon joint, not a dovetail. I looked at the specs listed on guildguitars.com for both D-20 and M-20, and the joint isn't mentioned.
As I understand it, all models are still m&t except for the "Traditionals" (like D40 Traditional) where the dovetail is shown in the specs because it's still considered an upgrade by "the market".

I also thought the finish was was not NCL, but the specs say satin NCL.
When first used on the first Oxnard M20's it was described as a self-catalyzing varnish. Recently though, somebody called Oxnard and was told that it is now in fact NCL. Question came up in a thread about the gloss top/satin sides&back on the new M25e.
So yeah the spec has changed.

Am I missing something, or have they changed the specs to the more favorable (amongst some of the "masses,") 1 3/4 " nut width, as I have seen cited on I believe it was Amazon & Musician's Friend - as well as some ads, maybe?
When in doubt, check the factory specs first: https://guildguitars.com/g/d-20-in-vintage-sunburst/
It's 1-11/16. Granted, sometimes the specs aren't quite up to date and one needs to contact Oxnard if it's a truly non-negotiable spec, like that question about the finish change.

The M20 has the 1-3/4 nut, much more common on the smaller-body "fingerpicker" guitars.
;)

Just seen way too many journalist errors over the years. In fact I'd like to shoot the guy who wrote that review for perpetuating 2 myths we've constantly refuted over the years:

"Speaking of the devil, Fender purchased Guild in 1995, which probably sounded the death knell. Most things that Fender and Gibson bought were disasters. What a mess they both made of things and largely still do."
And:
"About the time, Fender acquired them and sent the manufacturing overseas."

Gag me. Fender did not wreck Guild. If anything they wouldn't have lasted another 20 years in the US after '95 without Fender.

More garbage:
""One of the first guitars produced by Guild from their factory in Rhode Island was the D-25 acoustic. It was highly thought of. The D-20 is today’s version of the same guitar that rolled off the production line in 1967."

Um, the first guitars out of Westerly were M20's, D25's weren't even introduced until '68, and their sister the D35 vastly outsold 'em for the first few years.. and I've never seen any mention of what models followed the M20 in production although I suspect it would have been the F20's and F30's which were higher-volume sellers than the dreadnoughts at the time, so would have been much more likely candidates for Westerly's much larger production capabilities, and generate quicker cash flow and investment return on the new plant.

And the ultimate BS:
"There was the time when Fender sent the manufacturing overseas, but Cordoba bought Guild and brought it back to its home."
Utter hogwash. There was always a US Guild factory and ever since the introduction of the GAD series there have always been MIC Guilds.

Cordoba did not "bring em back home".. gag. (Besides which, "Home" would actually be New York, not California.)
 
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chazmo

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. . .

When first used on the first Oxnard M20's it was described as a self-catalyzing varnish. Recently though, somebody called Oxnard and was told that it is now in fact NCL. Question came up in a thread about the gloss top/satin sides&back on the new M25e.
So yeah the spec has changed.
This is very concerning (to me). I wonder what's real and what isn't, and if there actually was a switchover from varnish to NCL I wonder when it happened. That's kind of an important detail to folks...
 

Westerly Wood

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Gag me. Fender did not wreck Guild. If anything they wouldn't have lasted another 20 years in the US after '95 without Fender.


best quote. and there are many quotable nuggets in Al's super-appropriate rant.

hear, hear!
 

SFIV1967

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I wonder what's real and what isn't, and if there actually was a switchover from varnish to NCL I wonder when it happened. That's kind of an important detail to folks...
Yes, all has switched to only NCL in Oxnard! We discussed this in some threads. That happend very early 2020. Here is one discussion:


Ralf
 

Westerly Wood

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Yes, all has switched to only NCL in Oxnard! We discussed this in some threads. That happend very early 2020. Here is one discussion:


Ralf

hey Ralf,

quick veer...What Guilds do you own? Do you own any acoustics? I notice you have 7.
 

chazmo

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Yes, all has switched to only NCL in Oxnard! We discussed this in some threads. That happend very early 2020. Here is one discussion:


Ralf
Indeed. Thanks, Ralf. That's a major detail that somehow I missed. Kind of shocked that they changed the finish and didn't change the model designation somehow to indicate that. So be it. End result, I'd want to seek out an D-20 or M-20 with NCL if I were looking.
 

fronobulax

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Kind of shocked that they changed the finish and didn't change the model designation somehow to indicate that.

I'm not shocked and I would not be surprised to find out that folks in Oxnard don't think the change is significant to the consumer. Folks at LTG might think otherwise.

If you look at the way wood specifications have changed without notice there is precedent for not changing model numbers. I'm thinking of bridges, necks and fretboards and not top, back and sides.
 

adorshki

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Al's got his hackles up! :)
😀 Yeah. Gotta admit though, I was guilty of "shooting first" before I remembered to take into account that that article was written in 2016, when Oxnard was just starting production.

I realized that that reviewer may well have been spoon-fed some of that stuff from Cordoba, as it fits with at least a couple of many grievances we've had with 'em since the takeover:

Re the M&T neck joint, Cordoba didn't actually acknowledge that new construction method change "up front". It was discovered here by accident when a pic of a neckblock in a body in process revealed the tell-tale "boltholes".

IIRC correctly it was TXbumper who first caught it, and he was understandably even further angered that they actually initially denied it when he questioned 'em on it, again, "IIRC".
Might have got some details wrong but I'm still quite sure of my memory about the real problem: lack of transparency from Cordoba.

They didn't want to cop to it. So they may have told that reviewer the D20 had a dovetail neck joint.

Also, in '16, D20's did get satin varnish. It was before they were spraying NCL which they were reserving at the time for the higher-end/Traditionals like the F55 and D55.

Where the 1-3/4 nut spec came from for the D20 I don't know, can't recall if that might actually have been the original spec and has also changed, or if perhaps somebody at Oxnard gave the spec for the Westerly Collection D120 , thinking they'd be the same?

Still, one wonders if the reviewer actually played the guitar. One'd think he'd notice the difference between a 1-11/16 and 1-3/4 nut.
Most folks can at least "feel it" whether they have a preference for one or the other, or not.

We saw examples of other spec info errors from 'em early on, such as one member being sent 2 different replacement bridges for his F150, Oxnard not realizing that the original F50, the GADF50, and the later GAD F150 actually had different bridge pin spacings.

Finally, another one of my pet peeves with Cordoba is their revisionist history. Could explain some of that "hogwash", although I think he got the part about Fender ruining Guild from the usual internet myth-mongers.

Still think he was derelict in not performing his due diligence fact-checking though, something I can't abide in a journalist.

There's still flat out incorrect info on Cordoba's Guild web site in the "History and Heritage" page:

"and Bonnie Raitt picks up her first Navarre F-50, which is a new version of the F-50 with rosewood back and sides."
Um, no. The F50 started life with the Navarre name, the rosewood-bodied version was simply the F50R.

"In 1983, the Talking Heads' groundbreaking live concert "Stop Making Sense" is filmed. Lead singer David Byrne uses his solid-body Guild."
Byrne never played a Guild solid body although there's a couple of pics of him playing a different make solid body with what looks very much like a Guild headstock and has even been ID'd as a Guild, though it's not.

What really pisses me off though is that this totally draws attention away from Byrne's well-known love for his F15ce.
Which brings me to my single biggest grievance with 'em: Calling an F48 an F40, and completely ignoring the importance of the 16" jumbo body for Guild, going all the way back to the original F40, and having always been present in the lineup in some form (like the F15ce, one of many "Fxxce" types) in every factory, all the way up until Oxnard.

From their F40 page: "...our jumbo-shaped F-40, made in Southern California...Its predecessor, the F-48 Navarre, was only produced from 1972 to 1976 and original versions are a rare treasure."

Ignoring the fact that there was a 1 year re-issue in '93 IIRC, what's unsaid is that Guild didn't drop models if they sold well.
They dropped 'em if they didn't.

So one kind of suspects the market yawned at a 'hog body17" jumbo back then. And even though at least a couple of members love their Oxnard F40's I suspect it still isn't a formula with real broad appeal.

And now the venerable F40 model name is saddled with confusion about what a real F40 is.

I'll drop my gripes when Oxnard brings back the one true F40 body.. Until then I will never give up the fight.
:mad:
😀
 
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Westerly Wood

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😀 Yeah. Gotta admit though, I was guilty of "shooting first" before I remembered to take into account that that article was written in 2016, when Oxnard was just starting production.

I realized that that reviewer may well have been spoon-fed some of that stuff from Cordoba, as it fits with at least a couple of many grievances we've had with 'em since the takeover:

Re the M&T neck joint, Cordoba didn't actually acknowledge that new construction method change "up front". It was discovered here by accident when a pic of a neckblock in a body in process revealed the tell-tale "boltholes".

IIRC correctly it was TXbumper who first caught it, and he was understandably even further angered that they actually initially denied it when he questioned 'me on it, again, "IIRC".
Might have got some details wrong but I'm still quite sure of my memory about the real problem: lack of transparency from Cordoba.

They didn't want to cop to it. So they may have told that reviewer the D20 had a dovetail neck joint.

Also, in '16, D20's did get satin varnish. It was before they were spraying NCL which they were reserving at the time for the higher-end/Traditionals like the F55 and D55.

Where the 1-3/4 nut spec came from for the D20 I don't know, can't recall if that might actually have been the original spec and has also changed, or if perhaps somebody at Oxnard gave the spec for the Westerly Collection D120 , thinking they'd be the same?

Still, one wonders if the reviewer actually played the guitar. One'd think he'd notice the difference between a 1-11/16 and 1-3/4 nut.
Most folks can at least "feel it" whether they have a preference for one or the other, or not.

We saw examples of other spec info errors from 'em early on, such as one member being sent 2 different replacement bridges for his F150, Oxnard not realizing that the original F50, the GADF50, and the later GAD F150 actually had different bridge pin spacings.

Finally, another one of my pet peeves with Cordoba is their revisionist history. Could explain some of that "hogwash", although I think he got the part about Fender ruining Guild from the usual internet myth-mongers.


Still think he was derelict in not performing his due diligence fact-checking though, something I can't abide in a journalist.

There's still flat out incorrect info on Cordoba's Guild web site in the "History and Heritage" page:

"and Bonnie Raitt picks up her first Navarre F-50, which is a new version of the F-50 with rosewood back and sides."
Um, no. The F50 started life with the Navarre name, the rosewood-bodied version was simply the F50R.

"In 1983, the Talking Heads' groundbreaking live concert "Stop Making Sense" is filmed. Lead singer David Byrne uses his solid-body Guild."
Byrne never played a Guild solid body although there's a couple of pics of him playing a different make solid body with what looks very much like a Guild headstock and has even been ID'd as a Guild, though it's not.

What really pisses me of though is that this totally draws attention away from Byrne's well-known love for his F15ce.
Which brings me to my single biggest grievance with 'em: Calling an F48 an F40, and completely ignoring the importance of the 16" jumbo body for Guild, going all the way back to the original F40, and having always been present in the lineup in some form (like the F15ce, one of many "Fxxce" types) in every factory, all the way up until Oxnard.

From their F40 page: "...our jumbo-shaped F-40, made in Southern California...Its predecessor, the F-48 Navarre, was only produced from 1972 to 1976 and original versions are a rare treasure."

Ignoring the fact that there was a 1 year re-issue in '93 IIRC, what's unsaid is that Guild didn't drop models if they sold well.
They dropped 'em if they didn't.

So one kind of suspects the market yawned at a 'hog body17" jumbo back then. And even though at least a couple of members love their Oxnard F40's I suspect it still isn't a formula with real broad appeal.

And now the venerable F40 model name is saddled with confusion about what a real F40 is.

I'll drop my gripes when Oxnard brings back the one true F40 body.. Until then I will never give up the fight.
:mad:
😀


i enjoyed the rant Al, it was very informative...

but hey, so long as we agree that Nick Drake wrote, played and recorded all his songs with an M20, we good...

rofl
 
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