Blues 90 with Franz PUPs. What do you think?

[matsickma]

Some of you know I have a aftermarket Westerly Guild Nightengale guitar with P90's. Since it is not an official Guild with a serial number and thus of limited collector value I have been willing to modify this guitar from its "stock" condition. To date I have added a Guild Bigsby (special installation trick as the model I used is the type seen on the S100 Deluxe) and installed black P90 covers and knobs.

I have been thinking of installing Franz pups as replacements for the P90's.

So what do you think? Good for tone or leave the P90's?

(I haven't figured out all the details yet but have a general plan of the concept.)

I had even considered DeA 2ks.

M

 

[Walter Broes]

Hmmm...I hate to come off sounding snobby, but I'd save the Franzes for something vintage. I had a pair on a DeArmond guitar, and the guitar really didn't do them justice IMO. I took them off. (and I'm waiting for the right Capri carcass to come along for a custom project!)

If you're unhappy with the P90's, why not have them rewound, or have something made? Doesn't have to be all that expensive.

 

[danerectal]

I think that the Franz pickups would best suit a hollow/semi-hollow model, but I've no basis for comparison. I think the DeArmonds would be a point of interest to hear.

 

[jp]

I think it would depend on what kind of music you're gonna play and what type of amp rig you're going to use, matsickma. All three can get biting Americana clean twang or meaty gritty blues. For warm jazz tones, I favor the Franz PUs. For distorted tones, I like Lindy Fralin P90s or Dearmonds. They're all pretty universal, though, as you already know. If I may be so shallow as to vote according to looks, though, I'd go with the Dearmonds. They make any guitar just look cool! 8) Since you already have the P90s installed, would Dearmond surrounds cover the routs? I'd love to see and hear your Nightingale when it's done!

It seems to me that you're seeking what I'm after--the Swiss Army knife Guild--the universal, all-round Guild, super axe. I envision a full scale M-65 set up for two PUs with a soundpost and Guild Bigsby. I'd like to create a quick-mount system that allows me to swap out PUs on the fly--Guild 60s mini-HBs, Franz singles, or Dearmond Dynasonics. Of course, I'll have experiment with a host of different pots, test quick connector integrity, and decide on a universal wiring plan. Some day.

 

[Default]

I haven't played anything other than buckers since the T-100d went in '85. The Strat has lace sensors (and therefore doesn't count), so I have no frame of reference with which to offer an opinion. :?

 

[matsickma]

Thanks Guys. Good comments.

I have a pair of Franz pups installed in a DeA Starfire Special. I was looking for the Franz sound on a non-hollow guitar. Guild only used Franz on hollow body guitars so a semi-hollow, semi-solid or solid was the next option. To my ear semihollows lack the low end bass of a semisolid like a Bluesbird. Thus I thought Franz pups might be a good match for a Bluesbird type design.

I like the sound of the DeA 2ks on the M75T but I would perfer a lighter guitar. I have actually considered taking a router to the back of a M75T and carving out areas to lighten it up.

Well I'm in no rush and have more projects than I care to admit. I'll let the idea gestate for a while.

jp,
I have a trick to share on the installation of a DeA 2k in a P90 hole. First off the P90 hole is not wide enough. You have to either cut down the 2k mounting flange or route the hole a little wider. (I haven't decided which way to go yet.) For either example the installation of the 2k would look pretty messy. So to get around that you need to go to a Fender dealer and order the chrome rings they made a few years back for the Telecaster with DeA 2000 pups. This guitar may have been called the Dynacaster? These plates are similar to those used on a DeA BajoJet and Guild M70 and cover the route made for the pickups.

M

 

[Walter Broes]

Matsickma, can you really still get those rings?!? That would be very nice....

 

[matsickma]

Hi Walter,

I went to the Fender web site and looked up the schematics for the "dynacaster" and identified the part number for the covers. I then went to an authorized Fender music store and made the order (Rings and screws). It took 9 months to get half of my order and another 6 months to get the rest of the parts. So if your willing to wait you should be able to get them.

I went through this exercise about 4 years ago as I considered adding DeA pups to various guitars. To date I haven't done any installation that requires the recess pickup. I haven't abandoned the idea of using these yet but if I do I'll let you know. I have a Guild M70 with the recessed DeA 2000's. The 2000s sound really good on the M70. I considered adding a middle 2k pickup and Guild Bigsby. However to date I haven't got up the courage to alter an origional guitar.

Anyway...the point is that an interesting little detail is that the Guild DeA rings have a thin black rubber backing that I suspect was added to prevent marking the finish of the guitar or in dampining vibration. The Fender rings don't have this black rubber. This is a subtle item but I thought it was a another little example of the little details Guild added to their design.

Another thing...the rings do not fit over Gretsch reissue Dynasonics. It turns out the reissue dynasonics have a slightly larger pickup housing and so the rings don't slide over them.

M

 

[jp]

jp,
I have a trick to share on the installation of a DeA 2k in a P90 hole. First off the P90 hole is not wide enough. You have to either cut down the 2k mounting flange or route the hole a little wider. (I haven't decided which way to go yet.) For either example the installation of the 2k would look pretty messy. So to get around that you need to go to a Fender dealer and order the chrome rings they made a few years back for the Telecaster with DeA 2000 pups. This guitar may have been called the Dynacaster? These plates are similar to those used on a DeA BajoJet and Guild M70 and cover the route made for the pickups.
M

Wow, I had no idea there was such a creature. Googling brought up the Fender Tele-sonic. Is this the ring you're talking about?

Another thing...the rings do not fit over Gretsch reissue Dynasonics. It turns out the reissue dynasonics have a slightly larger pickup housing and so the rings don't slide over them.

Too bad. My Dynasonics are the recent reissues.

 

[matsickma]

Yep.Thats the baby.


Hmmm. It looks like the pole pieces are flat instead of a slight edge bevel. This would suggest the "Telesonic" had 2k's instead of 2000's. I had assumed they came with model 2000's.

M

 

[Walter Broes]

Thanks for the info! Yes, from what I've seen the telesonic came with the 2K's.

 

[mad dog]

Telesonics came with 2ks.

Mat: I'd be most curious to hear how 2Ks sound in that guitar. I too am impressed by these pickups in my M75T. Which as you know, is such a heavy, dense guitar, it certainly shapes how those p/us sound. Owning a Dearmond starfire special - in which they were not nearly as impressive IMO - leads me to think solidbody is the magic with this p/u. But what would it sound like in a lighter solid body, chambered or mahogany? Nearly bought a telesonic sight unseen to find out.

On the other hand, properly rewound P90s have their own magic.

 

[Walter Broes]

Mad dog, the version of "Love my Baby" on here is an Epi Flying Vee with 2K's into a Super Reverb :
http://www.myspace.com/clarkandtheaces

 

[mad dog]

Walter: That sound sure works for me. Real nice. Do you ever come around the east coast US? I'd love to see you play sometime.

Thanks for posting that.
MD

 

[FNG]

Mad dog, the version of "Love my Baby" on here is an Epi Flying Vee with 2K's into a Super Reverb :
http://www.myspace.com/clarkandtheaces

You have an interesting collection of friends, Walter. :lol: 8) :shock: :lol:

 

[Walter Broes]

That's just a little joke....

Mad Dog, thanks. No plans right now - between getting a work permit for four people, the dollar value being what it is right now, and the club scene not exactly flourishing worldwide, it's not a realistic proposition at this point for my band to tour anywhere in the U.S.

 

[Default]

Yeah, that. :evil:

Well, if you ever make it to Philly, you can crash here, and I'll take y'all to the Rib Crib.

 

[Walter Broes]

Thanks Default, that's very generous! Same goes for you, should you and Lady Default ever make it to Belgium, there's a guest bedroom in my apartment, and I'll take you out to have some moules frites, or other Belgian specialty.