Best method for tuning peg hole repair?

Wilmywood said:
Time for the Grovers.
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That’s kind of where I’m leaning. I had the epoxy out and was going to maybe go that route with the epoxy repair skywalker is detailing, then I think, eh, new tuners really would be so much better. There maybe some purists out there, I’m partial to it to a degree. Heck, I’ve got originality now, it’s cool and all, but if it can be even better? Why not pursue that. Thanks for the suggestion I’ll follow up when I’ve decided and have the solution completed 👍
 
Skywalker said:
or probably better still, file the hole to fit a metal collet
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Thank you for detailing that method, as that’s how I was going to go about it, I have the epoxy out all set to mix, but think maybe new modern tuners would suit me best. I’m looking at that option now too. :)
 
Boneman said:
That’s kind of where I’m leaning. I had the epoxy out and was going to maybe go that route with the epoxy repair skywalker is detailing, then I think, eh, new tuners really would be so much better. There maybe some purists out there, I’m partial to it to a degree. Heck, I’ve got originality now, it’s cool and all, but if it can be even better? Why not pursue that. Thanks for the suggestion I’ll follow up when I’ve decided and have the solution completed 👍
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When I bought my first G37 in 1973, Mike Lipe (link) was the luthier at my local guitar shop, and he suggested right then replacing the open Guild tuners with Grovers and having him make a bone nut for it. I did both and have never regretted either. Originality is vastly overrated, IMO.
 
Boneman said:
Thank you for detailing that method, as that’s how I was going to go about it, I have the epoxy out all set to mix, but think maybe new modern tuners would suit me best. I’m looking at that option now too. :)
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Either way, it might be wise to fill in those cavities.
 
steveintampa said:
Either way, it might be wise to fill in those cavities.
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I believe that replacing the current tuners with Grovers will require drilling the post holes larger than they are now, so filling that one in will not be necessary.
 
Hmmm !….When drilling an existing hole a little bigger, the drill bit tends to dive in, in an uncontrolled way and it’s easy to break out wood. Drilling into an irregular shaped hole tends to result in some displacement of the holes center.

Just so it’s been said.
 
Unless you use a drill press / column drill.🤔
 
Skywalker said:
Hmmm !….When drilling an existing hole a little bigger, the drill bit tends to dive in, in an uncontrolled way and it’s easy to break out wood. Drilling into an irregular shaped hole tends to result in some displacement of the holes center.

Just so it’s been said.
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For someone unfamiliar with such a process ^ that may well be true. In this case I would drill from the back where the hole is not elongated. And probably just large and deep enough to accept the new tuner body. We know the elongated hole is already large enough for the threaded nut. For the rest of the holes that is less of an issue. The key in any event without a press or guide is caution.
 
steveintampa said:
I would use a jig. Still think the cavities should be addressed.

Guitar Tuner Drill Jig - StewMac

Keeps pegholes perfectly aligned and spaced so your tuners will work efficiently.
www.stewmac.com www.stewmac.com
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Those jigs will not work as the largest diameter they service is 5/16 or .312 inch. The Grovers will require a 10mm (0.3937 inch) hole if I recall correctly. Here's one from Amazon that could be clamped to the back of the headstock and work well, looks like.

Woodworking Drill Guide Aluminum Alloy 45 Degree Hole Locator Block with 10 Pieces 3-12 mm Sleeves - Positioner Tool for Round Log and Square Log Deck Corner Drilling - Amazon.com

Woodworking Drill Guide Aluminum Alloy 45 Degree Hole Locator Block with 10 Pieces 3-12 mm Sleeves - Positioner Tool for Round Log and Square Log Deck Corner Drilling - Amazon.com
www.amazon.com

And another, cheaper alternative

Bloepum For 4mm to 10mm Drill Bit Compatible-Metric Drill Guide-Vertical 90 Degree Drilling Jig 1 - Amazon.com

Bloepum For 4mm to 10mm Drill Bit Compatible-Metric Drill Guide-Vertical 90 Degree Drilling Jig 1 - Amazon.com
www.amazon.com
 
A drill press and a means of holding your workpiece perfectly still is highly recommended. Without it, everything gets a bit more tedious. But it isn't impossible to pull off a Pro job.

Suggestion: Place tape securely over the hole on the headplate (front) side. Fill the hole from the back side with epoxy (NOT 5 minute), careful to work it into EVERY crevice, and make certain the fill is flush with the back of the headstock. Allow to cure overnight.

Remove the tape. Carefully (re-)drill the desired hole (you are now drilling epoxy, so a brad-point bit will NOT wander or try to "screw" itself into exiasting wood)..

Upgrade: You *can* mix fine wood dust with the epoxy (preferably the same wood as the hole you are filling), and get closer to a visually complete repair. If you get the mix of dust and adhesive right, it is possible to simply drill the new hole, re-install the tuner, and live happily ever after.

Recommended: Hardwood dowels are manufactured along the the grain, for maximum strength. Unfortunately, that grain is the opposite direction of the grain in the headstock. Don't use dowels to plug tuner holes. A plug cutter is capable of cutting just the right size (round) plug out of (near) matching Mahogany. Match the hole diameter with the plug diameter, with the goal of keeping the repair hidden (if possible) behind the tuner pieces. Glue the plug into the hole - tight fits allow for wood glue. Sloppy fits require epoxy. Let dry overnight. Scrape/sand/polish smooth. Drill the new hole and you are back in business.
 
Ooh thanks Mr Cozad ;) I like that idea too, cutting plugs of mahogany and use those to fill the holes. Lots to decide on now, thank you all for the inisights 👍🏼
 
While we’re getting into the matter of fitting new machine heads, I just want to touch on a detail relating to one of my pet hatreds, which is that of a row of tuners which doesn’t seem to have reached a democratic consensus on which angle to point. 😅Frequent this is just the result of sloppy fitting, although if the nut through-bolting the machine head comes loose, then the unfair shearing force on the poor little screw can push it sideways, and up goes that tuners angle. To ensure the tuners remain in proper orientation as part of the process of fitting them, it is good to note just how much lateral space that the shank of the little screw has in the hole in the plate and drill the hole in the headstock for that accordingly…so not necessarily in the dead center of the hole in the plate, but a little towards one side, so that when you put the screw in, it is making solid metal on metal contact in resistance to the direction the machine head is trying to rotate. Otherwise the machine head will rotate a little until that metal on metal contact between the screw and hole in the plate is realized.

Bottom line…. A small error in the position of the hole for the little screw will result in a notable deviation in the angle of the tuner.

A lot of words about a very small hole. 😂
 
I’ve decided to repair the peg hole per @Christopher Cozad suggestion, and stick with the original tuners. I’m currently looking for a block of mahogany to cut my plug from, any ideas on a good source? I’m guessing it won’t matter too much if it’s Honduran, African or Khaya for instance, does it? Should I just buy from Amazon or go to a lumber yard, specialty shop?
 
You may find some well seasoned mahogany that’s become bored with being something else kicking around the house, or in a second hand shop etc. You only need a very little bit.🤔
 
Boneman said:
I’ve decided to repair the peg hole per @Christopher Cozad suggestion, and stick with the original tuners. I’m currently looking for a block of mahogany to cut my plug from, any ideas on a good source? I’m guessing it won’t matter too much if it’s Honduran, African or Khaya for instance, does it? Should I just buy from Amazon or go to a lumber yard, specialty shop?
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You can find that on e-bay

www.ebay.com

Wood Scraps Arts And Crafts Supplies Mahogany Canary wood Ebony Exotic Lot 141 | eBay

A variety of exotic hardwood cut off scraps for woodworking arts and crafts supplies. Wood turning and carving blanks. Approximately 1.5 pound kiln dried lumber. See pictures or message me for details. Teak, mahogany, canary wood, Ebony, Padauk
www.ebay.com
 
Boneman said:
... I’m guessing it won’t matter too much if it’s Honduran, African or Khaya for instance, does it?
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Your tuners will be so happy that they can sit up straight, again, that they will never inquire as to the species on which they rest. I promise.

:)

If any portion of the repair were ever to be visible, then it would be of greater concern to at least make an attempt to match the grain and color of the headstock. The most important aspect to a repair such as this is properly filling that void, such that you can control the drilling of the new hole, rather than having the old hole (or sections of it that weren't plugged) dictating where the new hole will go.
 
Got started on continuing the saga this afternoon. Decided to pull my new plug from the solid mahogany body of the mini telecaster project I have laying around in my garage, basically has been idle for a few years, lol. (Don’t worry, plug was dug out from behind the pickguard). Anyway, the epoxy I mixed up was black, so thought that worked out as a bonus. I think it came out decent from the front. (By the way, is the I in Guild especially long on this? Immediately looked a bit odd to me)
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I’m more concerned with the back now, as I also had to redo the previous plug for the screw hole since the screw pulled up again. Both holes shared a thin wall between them, and as I drilled out that old plug material from the screw hole very carefully, the wall crumbled. I was tempted to try and fashion an oblong plug, but that would be time consuming. So I got the main plug in, filling in those voids with epoxy. Then dropped some epoxy in the screw hole and inserted that new plug(also from the telecaster body). Squished in both good with a clamp and this is how it looks. I feel the screw should have good material to grab now, although with the tuning post snug in its new hole, and the bushing properly seated, the screw shouldn’t have as much force pulling at it.

You might be able to see some of the plug from the back when all is said and done, but I’ll see if I can’t position the tuning machine just right. Could always dab it with some cherry paint, might camouflage it good. Otherwise, I mean if it’s a solid repair job, then for me it’s not that big a deal, since it’s still all original and I did that sh#$ myself! 💪Yay!
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I’m going to let it cure overnight, then chisel down the excess plug in back, sand it smooth, drill out the post hole at 1/4”, (with a jig), just under the original 5/16”, so the tuning post is snug. Then widen the face enough for the bushing to fit.

While I was at it, I didn’t like the plastic saddle it was sporting, so I made a new bone saddle from a blank, and just whittled it down to pretty much an exact replica of the plastic one. Fits a little tighter so perhaps better tone transfer improvement, we’ll see. I mean, the action was great, the guitar played so good as it was, so kept the height, and hoping for the same feel when it’s done.
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Glad that D50T came in when it did, gives me the distraction I need as I wait on getting this back to playing shape.
 
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