Bass scale length and resulting string scale length tensions are unpredictable things...

[lungimsam]

It is interesting that a long scale stringset that feels too floppy on my medium scale bass can feel just right on my short scale Starfire. I hear people say that long scale strings, when used on a shortie, will be too floppy. But I found (pleasantly) that this long scale set is just right on the Starfire. Odd.
Hard to predict result between string scale length tensions and how they will behave from one bass to another.

Another question is, are designated scale length stringsets really optimized for their stated scale length other than just their silk to ball end distances?
If so, how?

 

[Guildedagain]

I think it's all about the Silks.

Jet Star basses use a medium set even though they are short scale, this is actually very common with short scale basses, everyone I've had/still have.

There are even super long scale bass strings, as in longer than regular long scale, but I'm doubting that metallic compostion is different between scale lengths within one brand of strings, such as LaBella which makes a nice Beatle set that fits short scale basses perfectly.

 

[fronobulax]

First issue is assuming that the terms "short", "medium" and "long" mean the same thing to every bass builder and string manufacturer. I've seen "short scale" describe both Hofners at 29.5" and Guilds at 31.5". The scale length of a string is normally the "speaking length" but the length of extra string to get from the nut to the tuning peg and from the saddle to the tailpiece anchor varies with string brand and bass geometry.

That said playing with the calculator at https://www.omnicalculator.com/other/guitar-string-tension it seems to me that the tension is higher for a longer scale length, all other factors being the same. So using the same string on two different scale length basses should result in the shorter bass having less tension. The mathematics would seem to contradict your observation so if your observation is consistent there is another factor at work.

I have heard of strings that were designed for a particular bass geometry and scale length that were not homogenous over the length of the string. At some point the winding tapered "off" or just ceased so that a portion of the string that was outside of the speaking length was not wound all the way.

 

[mellowgerman]

I am 99.9919% sure the scale simply means that the manufacturer designed the useable length of the string to accommodate ____scale basses. In other words, the only difference between a DR Legend flatwound .100 gauge long scale string and a DR Legend flatwound .100 gauge short scale string, is only the distance between the silks.
That's not to say that a long-scale string can't be used on short scale bass. I have done this on several occasions (old formula Fender flatwounds used to be my favorites but were only available in long-scale). However, all manufacturer's strings have varying degrees of flexibility, so if the thick part of the string starts to bend around a tuning post... POP! I've figured that out the hard way as well -- most notably Labella flatwound strings, which also break if you try to string them on a thru-body style bridge without buying the tapered set, specifically designed for this purpose.

 

[lungimsam]

Chromes long scale works on Starfire even though bare string around g and e posts.
I have Ernie ball 2815 on my Starfire now and hopefully they will be ok.
They sound the best on my Starfire so far.

 

[fronobulax]

Chromes long scale works on Starfire even though bare string around g and e posts.

Decades ago that was known to ruin strings because the winding would become unraveled or just break as it went around the posts. No claim that happens today.

 

[lungimsam]

With Chromes one is bettter off getting medium scale cuz that long scale fat e string just looks bad wrapping the post. But mine never broke. The Ernie Balls are thinner and don’t look so bad. Hope they last cuz they sound the best on the Starfire to me, and I don’t think they make a blue cobalt flat in short or medium scale.

 

[mellowgerman]

With both long-scale Chromes and Fender flats, I would carefully strip a few of the outer steel windings at the tuning peg so that it would fit in the slot/hole and that the bend of the wind would not be too extreme. As long as it's done carefully, the string won't unwind and the tension around the peg will keep them that way (at least with these two brands). I know Chromes are offered in medium and short scale, but a few years ago I preferred the heavier gauge strings (50-105 if I recall correctly) and medium/short scale Chromes weren't offered in those gauges.
Luckily, I never have to worry about buying strings for my basses again -- ever since having located a bulk source for NOS 70's Maxima flatwounds. I'm all stocked for life... unless they start putting our brains into robots in the future, in which case I'll have to start preparing a future alternative... assuming my robot hands will still be able to play bass.... I'll be one of the few pickled human brains still trying to maintain a 1970 Starfire bass... like the guy still playing the Belchior Diaz vihuela in 2022

 

[lungimsam]

I think the Florida heat is getting to you. Who would bother to put your brains in a robot?

 

[mellowgerman]

I think the Florida heat is getting to you. Who would bother to put your brains in a robot?

why THE GOVERNMENT of course!

They're behind everything, maaan! Just the other day I saw 4 Sikorsky UH-60's flying in formation, seedin' the clouds with acid rain!

 

[lungimsam]

Oh no, mellow is crazy from the heat!!!!

 

[lungimsam]

Here’s the wraps of the Ernie’s. Hopefully they will be ok. Chromes we’re fine that way.

 

[mellowgerman]

Typically, in my experience, if they're gonna break, they break right off the bat when you're tuning to pitch.

 

[lungimsam]

So back in the 60s did they make medium scale strings for Starfire bases or was everything long scale?

 

[mellowgerman]

So back in the 60s did they make medium scale strings for Starfire bases or was everything long scale?

Legend has it (in reference to Pyramid flats, if I recall correctly), Phil Lesh (or his techs) used to trim the silks on his short-scale strings with razor blades to make them clear the nut.

The Framus flatwounds that were Jack's favorites did not have silks at the headstock -- presumably the same as the wonderful, (though structurally-disadvantaged) Maxima strings (in accordance with extensive, obsessive research).

I think also back then, many "short scale strings", especially ones coming out of Europe were designed to work with hollow and semi-hollow bodies, which often had considerable length between the bridge saddle(s) and tailpiece or anchor-point. The only short-scale basses back then that come to mind, that would have had a short distance between saddle and anchor point, were the American Fender and Gibson options, which had their own branded strings.

EDIT: Mosrites I suppose would be the American wild-card... though I'm not super familiar with them or their history.

 

[lungimsam]

1970. JA in concert. Look close. Silks or no? Maybe lighting?

 

[mellowgerman]

I do see what you're saying there, but I'm more inclined to think that is shade/light playing a trick. If you look at the rest of the string up to the bare dangly ends, I doubt the silk would have gotten trimmed off the last 6 inches to the ends of the strings but not in that short section south of the tuning pegs. Likewise, I doubt the manufacturer would have wound silks only on a portion and not the entire end of the string.
You can also see by looking at the tuning machines that the light is coming from what would be the top right of the picture, Casady's left. That's consistent with shade on that part of the headstock. Jack also never seemed like much of a spotlight-hogger and it makes sense that he's probably turned away from the light, facing Joey or Jorma.
Of course of course of course though, we can't always believe what our eyes may suggest... with BIG BROTHER always sending out infrared jammer signals to distort our perception!

 

[fronobulax]

Just because, pic is of the stolen Starfire, after it was recovered and returned. Of course I have no idea whether Jack or someone else was responsible for the state of the strings.

 

[mellowgerman]

Those are the Rotosound tapewounds that were on it when the bass came back to Jack. He (or Rick turner) noted that when the bass was set up, it got a set of the Framus flats from Jack's old stash.

 

[lungimsam]

On second thought it is probably useless to rely on pictures to see if 60s players had access to certain scale length strings or not because most likely in the pictures we see whatever strings were put on that day were probably just to keep the bass functional for that gig and who knows if it was their string of choice at any given night anyway.
On a side note, I think the smaller diameter tuning posts on the vintage Starfires look better than the NS fat diameter posts.