Anyone know anything about leptospirosis?

chazmo

chazmo

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Hi gang,

My rescue pup, Chance, just had his first vet visit (under my care, that is). I agreed to all of the preventative treatments that the vet recommended except for a “lepto” vaccine.

My hesitance is simple: Chance has been subjected to so much abuse as a medical experiment rescue dog… In my opinion, the less the better in terms of treatments as the details of his (former) life are not available to me because of the rescue situation and Kindness Ranch (who rescued him for a lab — and euthanasia) does not tell me about that. Anyway… that’s a long story; to make it short…

Does anyone know anything about leptospirosis? I denied that regimen at the vet's because I don’t know if it’s warranted and I don’t know squat about the disease(s) it prevents. And, please, don’t just give me a ChatGPT answer; I’m looking for any direct knowledge / experience you guys might have. I never heard of it before.

Best. — Charlie
 
I trust the link posted above. I would address the issue because of possible kidney damage and inter-species transmission.

But what concerns me is that the link describes leptospirosis as a bacterial infection. For the most part infections are treated by antibiotics and not vaccines. Infections are usually diagnosed by some kind of culture, in this case a urine sample.

So I would ask the vet more about the treatment. Does Chance actually have leptospirosis based upon a culture or similar test or is this preventative? Is the prevention really a vaccine? What happens if Chance tests positive in the future? Is the cure hospitalization with massive antibiotics administered intravenously because Chance's expected lifespan just got cut to days or hours or is treatment more like two pills a day for a week followed by one pill a day for a week?

(The literal definition of a vaccine allows for treatment of bacterial or viral infections but the common usage is that vaccines treat viruses.)
 
fronobulax said:
Does Chance actually have leptospirosis based upon a culture or similar test or is this preventative?
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That I can answer. Definitely preventative, Jamie. This was yet another injection that I held off on (plus, they had no lab results to examine). So, your questions are salient and thanks for bringing them up. I will indeed address this with the vet.
 
Well it's considered a core vaccine and if you care about health for the dog you don't want to miss a core vaccine. However, you can also do an exposure risk assessment. The bacteria come mainly from cattle and wildlife, and if you are in a city and your dogs don't really drink from uncontrolled water sources and just the water you provide, then the exposure risk is small.
 
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Dogs will drink and damn dirty puddle they come across, city, country, or anything in-between.

I don’t see a need to bypass vaccines. I get your concerns and appreciate them, but unless there is some specific contra-indication based on the previous “work” done on him I’d say that any vaccine recommended by my vet would get the OK from me.

Give that pup a face smoosh from me. :)
 
Hope Chance is doing OK with the fireworks! My wife knows someone else with a rescue Beagle from the same org and he's on anxiety meds today. :cry:
 
GAD said:
Hope Chance is doing OK with the fireworks! My wife knows someone else with a rescue Beagle from the same org and he's on anxiety meds today. :cry:
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Yeah, I was worried about that, GAD. There wasn’t much going on near me last night. I (finallly) had an afternoon concert and was able to be home with him through the evening. Anyway, so far I’d have to say I don’t know what his reactions will be to thunderstorm and fireworks. He hears EVERYTHING, though. It’s quite possible he’ll have a reaction.

The dogs from Kindness Ranch come from unidentified (to us) labs all over the place and I think the way they’re treated probably varies very widely among the labs and perhaps even within each of them. From what I can tell, I’m pretty lucky because Chance has, first of all, a very chill demeanor to begin with particularly for a beagle. But, I also think/hope that he wasn’t badly abused. For example, I have to believe he was taken on walks because of my experience so far. And, the truly amazing thing is that he is so friendly and happy around other people and animals. Anyway, I can’t really imagine having a better experience. I’m sorry about your wife’s acquaintance, but I hope their dog is otherwise great for her!
merlin6666 said:
Well it's considered a core vaccine and if you care about health for the dog you don't want to miss a core vaccine.
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I sure hope you didn’t mean this as condescending, Merlin, but it came off that way. I already gave a clear explanation to you of why I’m hesitant to make him more of a pin cushion than he’s already been.

But, anyway, point taken. I may reconsider this. I still think I will ask the vet “why” is this a core vaccine and pose the questions he mentioned.
 
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chazmo said:
I sure hope you didn’t mean this as condescending, Merlin, but it came off that way. I already gave a clear explanation to you of why I’m hesitant to make him more of a pin cushion than he’s already been.

But, anyway, point taken. I may reconsider this. I still think I will ask the vet “why” is this a core vaccine and pose the questions he mentioned.
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Sorry about my poor choice of words. I tried to be supportive. Often we wonder about vaccines but they serve the purpose of reducing the risk of even more unpleasant encounters with health providers (and associated costs) if infection occurs. It looks like the link to avma did not work so here it is again.

 
Generally, our approach to vaccinating our dogs has been to be veary conservative, and consider the various threats that exist in our locale. We of course vaccinate for rabies, but the rest of the offerings from our vet we decline. Our terrier passed away at 17 years and our cockapoo is now 13 and we never vaccinated them for anything but rabies.
 
Rich Cohen said:
Generally, our approach to vaccinating our dogs has been to be veary conservative, and consider the various threats that exist in our locale. We of course vaccinate for rabies, but the rest of the offerings from our vet we decline. Our terrier passed away at 17 years and our cockapoo is now 13 and we never vaccinated them for anything but rabies.
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Hi, Rich!

I respect that point of view, but I suspect our reasoning for what we’re doing differs. I would normally have no objection to recommended preventative treatment, but I am a bit skeptical — that’s not quite the right word, but cautious perhaps — about risk / reward when it comes to prevention right now.

Chance is a rescue that has been subjected to medical experiments for 4 years. Giving him a proper home without stress, pain, and fear is my primary/only goal at this moment, particularly while he adjust to his new life. Keeping/getting him fully healthy is of course part of that. The vet gave good explanations for all of the regimens that Chance got (and started) at his first visit. Leptospirosis was on the list, but a) I had never heard of it, and b) I was not convinced that it was an immediate or even real threat. Also, as Jamie said, if Lepto is a bacterium, why are they vaccinating for it? As a separate vaccination from the rest, I need justification.

As an example of “the other side of the coin” here, I had them give him Lyme protection which I’d heard in recent years was a vaccine (at least for non-humans). Lyme is a real threat here. I pull engorged ticks off my Golden Retriever on a daily basis. I don’t want Chance contracting Lyme. Chance is also getting an oral prophylactic for ticks / fleas which was optional but (IMO) a real threat!

Chance has an ear infection, which I am treating with some fluid that I spray down his ear canal once a day. He decidedly does not like that. But, being a troooper, he puts up with it because he’s a love. He also has some gum disease which I’m hoping I can learn to brush away over the next few months. We’ll see. These are the only real symptomatic treatments that he has needed. The rest is prophylactic, really.

Anyway, I’m considering Lepto, but definitely not there yet. We’ll see how I feel in a couple of months.
 
Understood, Charlie. I think it's great that you are improving Chance's quality of life. Our cockapoo is also a rescue.
 
You're a good egg.

If you're ever looking for alternatives (assuming you're not already using it) we use this on our Newf's ears since they get ear problems so easily. Our vet recommended it and it's damn near magic. Solution for infections and cleanser for regular cleaning.

It took me six months to train Sully to let me clean his ears easily and now he actually comes and asks for it if they start to itch.
 
GAD said:
You're a good egg.

If you're ever looking for alternatives (assuming you're not already using it) we use this on our Newf's ears since they get ear problems so easily. Our vet recommended it and it's damn near magic. Solution for infections and cleanser for regular cleaning.

It took me six months to train Sully to let me clean his ears easily and now he actually comes and asks for it if they start to itch.
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+1 good stuff!
 
GAD said:
You're a good egg.

If you're ever looking for alternatives (assuming you're not already using it) we use this on our Newf's ears since they get ear problems so easily. Our vet recommended it and it's damn near magic. Solution for infections and cleanser for regular cleaning.

It took me six months to train Sully to let me clean his ears easily and now he actually comes and asks for it if they start to itch.
Click to expand...
Thanks!

The stuff the vet gave me is MalAcetic ULTRA which contains 1% hydrocortisone and .15% ketoconazole. Looks like just a (slightly stronger) version of what you posted.

Thanks, @GAD! Thanks, @FNG!
 
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I know that for certain breeds it's a no-go. West Highland White Terriers anyway.
 
The best known carrier around here (left coast) is marine mammals such as seals and sea lions. So, once I had stopped taking our dogs to the beach much, I stopped having them vaccinated. Then I found out many other animals are also vectors, including:

  • Rodents: Rats, mice, and voles
  • Farm animals: Cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, and horses
  • Wildlife: Deer, raccoons, and possums
 
Apparently leptospirosis is very common here in Florida. My brother had a girlfriend a few years ago whose dog died from it, simply because he drank from a puddle. Ever since then, I make sure my dogs have tge vaccine. That said, I do know it's not as common in some states so might be worth looking up how risky it is where you are
 
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