Anybody heard of DeArmond - Squier connection ?

Bonneville88

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Walter - the 2002 deal with Gretsch didn't have anything to do with the ending of DeArmond?
This is one of the areas of transitional DeArmond / Squier history I'd like to know more about.
 

Walter Broes

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It's a popular internet myth, but no. I don't remember whether it was Mike Lewis or Joe Carducci who confirmed that it was pure speculation and not the case, but I vividly remember seeing it.

It wouldn't make sense either. Can you imagine what Fender's R&D and prototyping of the Newark Street line of guitars must have cost? That was still firmly in the FMIC era, Mike Lewis did all that work.
 

Bonneville88

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Interesting - have wondered about that as well, if any manufacturing information from the DeArmond / Squier era
was significantly used during Newark Street development, or if it was mostly or completely discarded.
 

Walter Broes

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No, the Newark Street guitars are very obviously based on vintage Guild guitars, and really have nothing in common with the DeArmond guitars. Mike Lewis actually blueprinted a bunch of vintage Guilds for the Newark Street line, just like he did for Gretsch when the Gretsch deal happened. He was quoted as saying "it doesn't cost more to build them right" then, and obviously that was still on his mind when he did the Guild/Newark street thing.
 

Bonneville88

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Just found an interesting excerpt from the book Squier Electrics by Tony Bacon that casts some light on
the demise of DeArmond and the emergence - and quick disappearance - of the related Squiers.

 
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SFIV1967

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Mike Lewis actually blueprinted a bunch of vintage Guilds for the Newark Street line...
Mike Lewis bought many on ebay and from other sources (as he told me at NAMM 2013).

By the way, that book also mentioned the limited edition goldtop!

1617003504690.png

Ralf
 
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The Guilds of Grot

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Our own Grot provided some of his vintage guitars for that exercise if I remember correctly! Plus Mike Lewis bought many on ebay and from other sources (as he told me at NAMM 2013).

By the way, that book also mentioned the limited edition goldtop!

1617003504690.png

Ralf
I worked with CMG Guild in California. I lent them my 1965 S-200 Thunderbird, 1973 M-75CS "Bluesbird", and D-25.
 
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SFIV1967

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I worked with CMG Guild in California. I lent they my 1965 S-200 Thunderbird, 1973 M-75CS "Bluesbird", and D-25.
Ah! So that was after FMIC already, means after Mike Lewis. So that means Mike Lewis bought all the models for the 2013 introduced Newark St. line on the open market sometimes in the 2010/2011 timeframe I guess.

Ralf
 

fronobulax

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Ah! So that was after FMIC already, means after Mike Lewis. So that means Mike Lewis bought all the models for the 2013 introduced Newark St. line on the open market sometimes in the 2010/2011 timeframe I guess.

Ralf

I've heard a story about FMIC borrowing a 60's Starfire bass and measuring it circa 2010. I also talked to a FMIC (not Guild) employee at LMG I or II about vintage Starfire bass pickups and locations. I always assumed these had something to do with the NS Starfire I which was a FMIC project.
 

Bonneville88

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The DeArmond line surely went through its own well-considered
comparison and analysis process using earlier US-Built Guilds prior to production.
But clearly the goals for the DeArmond product vs Newark Street were different.
That said, I may be compelled to find a late 90's S100 and start taking measurements!
 
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SFIV1967

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That’s why you have outlandishly expensive aristocrats from 2013, I think at NAMM they were suggested at $4,000, and now the people who bought them cannot sell them for anything above $2k since there are so many high quality Korean aristocrats that came out shortly after the acquisition.
To be honest, the three American Patriarch models were probably the best of the best ever built by Guild. I was at NAMM 2013 when they were introduced. Unfortunatelly all the pictures in my post are lost and I can't edit the post or the links in it anymore as the message had more than 1,000 characters and the new forum software only allows 1,000 characters as maximum...


So yes, the MSRP were high, but nobody would complain about a Custom Shop Gibson or Fender at such prices. And those were list proces not sales prices.

1617103662968.png


But there were only so few of them built before New Hartford was shut, so they are highly sougth after and a statement that "the people who bought them cannot sell them for anything above $2k since there are so many high quality Korean aristocrats..." is simply not true. I'd love to buy an AP M-75 for only $2,000!
You can't compare the AP and NS models at all. I have never seen an American Patriarch M-75 for many days anywhere when offered, they sold always quickly I think to remember. And you rarely see them offered at all as people who bought them don't even think selling them, they are heirloom instruments to me.

Ralf
 
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Bonneville88

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Will post a comparison of a stop-tailpiece DeArmond M77 with the Squier Gold-Top M77 soon,
but meanwhile, some Tyrian purple (DeArmond M75) next to the Gold ;)

4IEFoCF.jpg
 
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