Anybody heard of DeArmond - Squier connection ?

[Nuuska]

I just saw a for sale ad in finnish musician net forum - the sellere writes - my translation and shortcuts :

"In 90s fender bought Guild and decided to quit DeArmond - and while there was a bunch of unfinished DeArmond without decals - Fender decided to sell those as Squiers - with fancy paintings. - - - So here we have what would be DeArmond X-155 - with Squier logo and flame painting. All original parts"

Question for those who know - can this be? Or is it just snakeoil? He's asking 420€ firm here in my town. I do not need one since X-2000, but I'm always curious.

 

[ruedi]

As my Italian teacher back in the day used to say: "Se non è vero, è ben trovato!" (even if it is not true, it is well conceived)

 

[Brad Little]

Not sure I like the "hot rodding," but I have seen other Squire rebranded DeArmonds, only with standard finish.

 

[Bonneville88]

Nuuska - I believe that was about the last iteration of the DeArmond X155, so
the seller may have the story at least somewhat or perhaps mostly correct. Rebranded
Squier, with enhanced inlays, different headstock, different pickups, "S" tailpiece,
and with a factory custom flame job!

The same guitar in a burst, sold on Reverb four years ago.
https://reverb.com/item/3601689-squier-x-155-sunburst?show_sold=true

And another in blonde, also from 4 years ago

 

[Bonneville88]

Another, on ebay. Hadn't realized that was dark blue on the lower body.

SQUIER X-155 HOLLOW BODY ELECTRIC GUITAR FENDER RARE | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SQUIER X-155 HOLLOW BODY ELECTRIC GUITAR FENDER RARE at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[SFIV1967]

The Squier versions of the discontinued DeArmond by Guild were called "Series 24".

Here the 2003 catalog pages of the Fender Frontline catalog:

Ralf

 

[SFIV1967]

The limited edition X-155 White Heat (Blue body with white flames) appeared in the Fender Frontline catalog 2004:

They look black in pictures using a flash but it is indeed "Cobalt Blue Metallic".
They were made in the Cor-Tek factory in Korea:

And it wasn't as simple as re-branding some leftover DeArmond parts...Just look at the very different headstocks of the X-155 models:

Ralf

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

The factory, finishes, body styles, and models are the same as the DeArmonds, with the exception of the headstock, weird inlays, awkward pickguards, Seymour Duncan pickups, and tailpiece on the X-155. Fender may have had a contract with Cort that needed to be fulfilled since DeArmond only lasted from 98’-01’, or there were a lot of parts that they already purchased and manufactured that needed to be used or scrapped, so they made modifications and slapped Squire on it - as Fender always did when they experimented with imports. I’m sure the Squire’s have the same level of build quality as the DeArmonds, but the DeArmonds just look better, have a better logo, and have cooler more unique pickups. You can find Seymour Duncan’s in anybody’s Frankenstein “hobby” guitar these days.
Fender went into a design, distribution, and sales agreement with Gretsch in 2002, and I’m sure that a part of the agreement required the ceasing of the manufacturing of Guild and DeArmond electrics since they compete directly with the classic and Electromatic “import” line of Gretsch. The M77T looks very much like a G6128T, and or any of the G series honestly. 2003 was the year to dump all of these models according to many buyers at the time, with the M66’s going for as little as $79 on musiciansfriend.

I get it, it’s corporate America, it’s about the bottom dollar and Guild/DeArmond got the short end of the stick, and Gretsch with its financial commitments, marketability, and guaranteed price point became priority. If I remember correctly, Fender used some DeArmond pickups on a few of their guitars after 2003, but since DeArmond was purchased just after the 97’ Guild acquisition as a way to offer import Guilds without tarnishing the legacy brand side of it, DeArmond was lumped into the Guild corporate file, and subsequently was sold to CMG when they bought Guild in 2014. Fender attempted to resurrect Guild in 2012-2013, but I think it was all a plan to try to sell the brand, and those initial reissue models were a way to showcase its potential. That’s why you have outlandishly expensive aristocrats from 2013, I think at NAMM they were suggested at $4,000, and now the people who bought them cannot sell them for anything above $2k since there are so many high quality Korean aristocrats that came out shortly after the acquisition. I’m sure there was a lot of mess for CMG to clean up. There is obvious speculation in all of this, I’m just trying to make sense of it all. Being the owner of a few AWESOME DeArmonds, you wouldn’t catch me dead with a Squirearmond or whatever you want to call em’.

 

[Bonneville88]

Dylan, interesting stuff. I research the DeArmond story on & off, and have read various iterations.
I'd like to know who the person or who the team was that put together the DeArmond line originally,
but names, dates, facts all seem hard to come by. That the line was modeled on classic Guild designs
is obvious, and I've had several of the guys who work on my guitars be unexpectedly and highly impressed by various
set-neck '98 - '01 models. Fwiw, I have two "Squiermonds", they seem as sorted
as their DeArmond counterparts, no obvious loss of finish / build quality, other than I guess the more economical pickups -
perhaps electronics are also a step down, but I wouldn't know - they feel good and sound good and play well.

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

Dylan, interesting stuff. I research the DeArmond story on & off, and have heard various iterations.
I'd like to know who the person or who the team was that put together the DeArmond line originally,
but names, dates, facts all seem hard to come by. That the line was modeled on classic Guild designs
is obvious, and I've had several of the guys who work on my guitars be unexpectedly and highly impressed by various
set-neck '98 - '01 models. Fwiw, I have two "Squiremonds", they seem as sorted
as their DeArmond counterparts, no obvious loss of finish / build quality, other than I guess the more economical pickups -
perhaps electronics are also a step down, but I wouldn't know - they feel good and sound good and play well.

Based on my experience with DeArmonds and the Cort build quality I’m sure that the Squires are great guitars, it’s the name and some of the aesthetics that are slightly cringy to me. I too would like to hear from somebody who directly worked for Fender at this time, there is this dead spot in the Guild and DeArmond history that will keep this conversation alive for the foreseeable future, although I’m sure interest is low in it anyways . Do you own or have played any of the DeArmond predecessors, and is there anything noticeably different other than aesthetics and pickups in the Squires?

 

[Bonneville88]

Dylan - agree - seems like there's a "dead zone" in the history and
not that much interest anyway, except among the crazies

The two Squiers I currently own are pictured below - both bought out of curiosity, was interested in
comparing side-by-side with their earlier respective M77 and S73 DeArmond siblings,
and to try to take some decent pics.

Pickups on both read "Duncan Designed" which I've gathered, from various
forums, translates to "economy".

If I'm recalling Ralf's information correctly, based on the serial #s the Gold-Top M77 is an '03 and
the Wine Red Metallic S73 is an '02. I'll have the 2003 and 2004 Fender Frontline catalogs in a few days,
interested to see if the Gold-Top is listed or pictured in either one.

Found a post in a 2015 thread on Strat-talk.com with some specs listed -
color was apparently called Aztec Gold, it may have been some sort of
limited edition, produced in 2003.

 

[SFIV1967]

I'll have the 2003 and 2004 Fender Frontline catalogs in a few days,
interested to see if the Gold-Top is listed or pictured in either one.

No, not in the Fender price lists or catalogs.

But in a collection of Squier models this was visible:

So the Aztec Gold one also had a chambered body.

Ralf

 

[Bonneville88]

Thanks Ralf - interesting! I've found a few of them searching through Reverb sold listings and some posts
on the Squier forum - and the previously mentioned post on Strat-talk - not much more than that.
Why do you suppose the chambering - to make it more Les Paul-ish? Or just lighter?

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

Dylan - agree - seems like there's a "dead zone" in the history and
not that much interest anyway, except among the crazies

The two Squiers I currently own are pictured below - both bought out of curiosity, was interested in
comparing side-by-side with their earlier respective M77 and S73 DeArmond siblings,
and to try to take some decent pics.

Pickups on both read "Duncan Designed" which I've gathered, from various
forums, translates to "economy".

If I'm recalling Ralf's information correctly, based on the serial #s the Gold-Top M77 is an '03 and
the Wine Red Metallic S73 is an '02. I'll have the 2003 and 2004 Fender Frontline catalogs in a few days,
interested to see if the Gold-Top is listed or pictured in either one.

Found a post in a 2015 thread on Strat-talk.com with some specs listed -
color was apparently called Aztec Gold (of course - what else ) and
it may have been some sort of limited edition, produced in 2003.

Well I’ll retract my statement, those do look nice! The chambering and size of the body are more similar to the Guild bluesbirds from the 90’s, it makes it a little lighter and they have a slightly more open sound to them. I dig it for sure! Aztec Gold was a color Fender has been using since the 50’s, and they have reissued multiple guitars with this finish since. It’s really reflective, I’m sure it looks great in person!

 

[Bonneville88]

Dude in that vid is an amazing player, man he sounds good!
Did not know that history about the Aztec gold color - cool!

 

[SFIV1967]

Aztec Gold was a color Fender has been using since the 50’s.

Actually on the Strat-Talk forum they said, Aztec Gold wasn't a vintage Fender colour but was first available on Fender (Japan) guitars circa 1982-83.
Ralf

 

[Bonneville88]

Bit of a veer, but interesting article on Fender colors of the 1960s - seems obvious now but I hadn't really thought it
through - colors at that time reflected what was being used in the automotive industry.

Fender Custom Colors in the 1960s | Vintage Guitar® magazine

In the 1950s, America’s fascination with the automobile was running at a fever pitch. The booming economy of the country’s post-war years pushed the car from a purpose-built means of transportation to the center of family and social life. As a result, automakers started to offer their wares in...

www.vintageguitar.com

 

[SFIV1967]

Well Buick had a color in the '50s called "Aztec Gold" but it looked different from the Fender Aztec Gold.

Ralf

 

[Bonneville88]

Tough to get any metallic to look even semi-correct on screen without a decent well-lit photo.
Looks like something called Aztec Gold was in use as early as 1952 - and maybe earlier.

1952 Buick Paint Charts and Color Codes

1952 Buick Paint Charts, Color Codes and Real Color Samples

www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au

 

[Walter Broes]

Fender went into a design, distribution, and sales agreement with Gretsch in 2002, and I’m sure that a part of the agreement required the ceasing of the manufacturing of Guild and DeArmond electrics since they compete directly with the classic and Electromatic “import” line of Gretsch. The M77T looks very much like a G6128T, and or any of the G series honestly. 2003 was the year to dump all of these models according to many buyers at the time, with the M66’s going for as little as $79 on musiciansfriend.

That's been denied by several people involved at the time.