Another Starfire string question

[J.F. Bjella]

Hi all!

Sorry for possibly boring you all with yet another thread about strings. Just to clarify, I've searched, read and gathered info on the subject by vacuuming the forum to a degree that I'm now dizzy.. and maybe not that much smarter!

I'm looking for a set of flats for my Starfire II bass (Newark St.). I've been using Labella Deep Talking Bass for my Greco EB-bass. Recently I've borrowed a '68 Starfire I bass, and I think it has D'addario flats on it, based on the color coded ball ends on them. I do like them a lot, especially the feel of them in my left hand, but they've been sitting on for close to 10 years, so I guess much of the goodness has to do with the age.

Pyramid Gold flats seems to have a good reputation for these basses. I've seen some has mentioned getting a custom set for a better fit on the Starfire. I know some buy the short scale set and shave off some of the silk, but would be nice to have a «perfectly fit» set? Bassdirect have a medium scale set in their webshop, so I'm wondering if they're a good fit? I contacted them but they couldn't recommend me anything without a measurement between the ball ends to the silk on my current strings. My Newark is currently on its way from Italy (brand new), and I'm on vacation so I don't have the SF I at hand either.

For reference I play mostly with a pick, and sound wise I'm very much into 60's sound, McCartney esque stuff. I like a low action and desire more thump than sustain.

Any hot tips or advice? Also, experiences with putting foam underneath the strings on these? I'm worried there’s a little tight between the bridge pickup and the bridge, but that may not be a problem?

All the best,
Bjella.

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome. I am not the one to give advice since I think my newest strings are at least six years old and while I did keep some packaging around so I know what strings I have, I am no longer certain which strings are on which bass. First world problem?

You have touched on some of the names I would look for if I were replacing strings. The official scale length is 30.5 inches. The way a string package is labeled will vary with brand. A lot of "medium" strings and some "short" will fit a SF. In matters like this I tend to defer to @mellowgerman so maybe he will chime in.

 

[mellowgerman]

Tone-wise, going by what your preference seems to be, I would recommend giving DR Legends a try. Super smooth, fat, thumpy and warm. That said, I should note, the off-the-shelf short scale set will need a bit of silk trimming. DR will however custom-make you a set (or at least they used to offer that service), but I'm assuming that will raise the price and wait-time a bit. To me, 2mins with a razor is a quick, easy, and 100% effective solution to the time+cost premium of the custom set alternative.

Also, if you like LaBella Deep Talkin flats, they do make a set that fits Starfires right out of the package, but I can't recall if it's the Beatle flats or the Medium scale flats (or possibly both sets would fit)... @twocorgis ?

 

[J.F. Bjella]

Thanks, both of you! I haven't taken the DRs too much into consideration, but for no good reason other than ignorance. I'll look into them - seems to check out all of the boxes for me. And maybe I'll just give the razor a go.
Any thoughts on the pyramid golds?

 

[twocorgis]

Also, if you like LaBella Deep Talkin flats, they do make a set that fits Starfires right out of the package, but I can't recall if it's the Beatle flats or the Medium scale flats (or possibly both sets would fit)... @twocorgis ?

It's the medium scale Deep Talkin' Flats, but I had them on my (now sold) GSR M85II. I think they're both identical scale lengths though. IIRC short scale strings don't work on a Starfire bass either.

 

[lungimsam]

Daddario Chromes medium scale (ECB81M, 45-65-80-100, 176.94lbs.) sounds great. Excellent fit for Starfire length. A little higher tension than Daddario long scale ECB80. Second place for best sound after Ernie Ball cobalt flats long scale 2815 set.
Note:
ECB80 and EB Cobalt flats are both long scale sets. A and D silks wrap fine on tuning posts, E and G the bare wire wraps on those tuners. But I don’t care cuz the Ernie Cobalt flats sound way better to my ears.
I used to use LaBellas but clarity found to be much better with Ernie’s.
I have noticed over the last 1.5 years that the Daddario quality seems to have declined as in duller sounding sets with really dull E strings (to my ears).
Roto SM77 wasn’t impressive.

For rounds, Roto SM66 way better than any others I tried for most massive and bright tone, and the red silks looked cool against the black headstock.
Also note:
I only like the tone of the neck pup on a Starfire, regardless of strings used.
Also note:
I play with fingers or a pick.
I don’t use anything to dampen strings.

 

[J.F. Bjella]

This is really helpful guys! Thanks a lot : - )

The D’addario set that’s on the Starfire I I’ve been playing both sounded and felt great to me - I can understand the dullness of the E string, but I mostly like that actually. It was maybe one song in the set we’ve been playing in our band that I wished the E had a little more liveliness to it, but I could easily compensate for that with a little extra dirt from an OD.

@lungimsam by clarity, do you refer to brightness/high end? I remember switching from a set of old rounds to a new set of labella flats on my Greco, and obviously going from old strings to new you get some brightness, but I was surprised how bright the flats were compared to the old rounds. That eventually faded with time, and I think the labellas sound good now. Still, the (supposedly) d'addario on the Starfire I feels smoother.

I hope to just get lucky with the first set of strings I go for and let them set and age.

 

[J.F. Bjella]

Looks like Labella have this handy bass string guide.

Anyone with a Starfire at hand that could measure the length from ball end to just past the nut?

 

[mellowgerman]

Anyone with a Starfire at hand that could measure the length from ball end to just past the nut?

If nobody beats me to it, I'm happy to measure this for you when I catch a moment away from my desk this morning.

 

[J.F. Bjella]

If nobody beats me to it, I'm happy to measure this for you when I catch a moment away from my desk this morning.

That would be great! : - )

 

[mellowgerman]

That would be great! : - )

Measuring the E string on my 1970 Starfire, I'm getting pretty much exactly 33" from the ball end to the headstock edge of the nut.

 

[Minnesota Flats]

Another fan of Daddario Chrome medium scale ECB81M, here.

 

[J.F. Bjella]

Measuring the E string on my 1970 Starfire, I'm getting pretty much exactly 33" from the ball end to the headstock edge of the nut.

Ok, great, thank you! According to la bella their medium scale set has a 34 1/4 wound length, so that should do. That is, if the Newark St-reissues is pretty much close to the vintage ones. I remember measuring the nut width on the '68 prior to placing an order for the reissue, to approximately 38mm, which is the same according to the specifications for the one I ordered. I know Guild have had some variations in the past.

I really hope the neck is some what in the same ball park. Simply the most inspiring bass I’ve ever played (the '68).

Also, @Minnesota Flats, I’m leaning towards the D’Addario! A local shop in Oslo have the medium scale in stock, while the la bella and pyramid gold seems a bit harder to obtain.

 

[Minnesota Flats]

I like the relative "stiffness" of the Chromes. I want to feel some "push back" from the strings: floppy is no bueno in my world.

 

[mellowgerman]

It is worth mentioning that there is reason to believe that all bridges (at least on the vintage specimens) were not set in the exact same position. We know this since some Starfires have surfaced where the front G-string-side tip of the harp bridge overlaps the bridge pickup more than on others. Also, the placement of my 1970 Starfire's bridge made proper intonation on the E string impossible - saddle would not go forward quite far enough. For this reason I had to remove the bridge, plug the screw holes and re-drill slightly farther forward and now everything is spot-on. There are also a number of vintage examples where the saddles are back as far as they will go and some still intonate slightly sharp... though this can also be due to excessive forward bow in the neck. The 1966 Starfire that I used to own intonated properly but the saddles were back as far as they could possibly go. In any case, point being, these things can vary a bit and correspondingly the length from ball end to nut will vary slightly too.

 

[J.F. Bjella]

Alright! Thank you all so much for chipping in. Appreciate it! Really excited for this instrument.

 

[lungimsam]

By clarity I mean enough mids and highs in the string to hear a clear attack on the sound envelope and therefore be more easy to hear what you are playing in loud group settings and not just the bottom end of the bass tones.

 

[DeArmond Hammer]

Hi, J.F., welcome! I can confirm that Medium is the correct length for LaBella strings. I have used both Deep Talkin' flat wounds and Deep Talkin' black nylon tape wounds on my Newark St. Starfires, and both styles were great.

 

[J.F. Bjella]

Hi, J.F., welcome! I can confirm that Medium is the correct length for LaBella strings. I have used both Deep Talkin' flat wounds and Deep Talkin' black nylon tape wounds on my Newark St. Starfires, and both styles were great.

Great! And you get enough clearing between the nut and the tuners for the silk portion of the strings? I've seen some pictures where the silk is partly going through the nut - that was maybe a short scale set - and as many have pointed out, one can always just shave off a bit.

How do you find the tapes vs flats?

 

[DeArmond Hammer]

Great! And you get enough clearing between the nut and the tuners for the silk portion of the strings? I've seen some pictures where the silk is partly going through the nut - that was maybe a short scale set - and as many have pointed out, one can always just shave off a bit.

The Starfire's 30.75" scale length is considered a short scale on a bass, so many people buy the Short length. However the Starfire has more distance than some other basses have between the bridge and the string anchor, so LaBella's Medium length is correct on a Starfire. The silk hits just right on the tuners.

How do you find the tapes vs flats?

This my first set of tape wound strings, and they're a lot of fun! I'm a beginner on bass and I usually practice fingerstyle, and I like the smooth but grippy feel of the tape. (I noticed that in the Let It Be concert, Paul had tapewounds on his short-scale Hofner bass, and he plucked them with a pick, so evidently they aren't just for fingerstyle playing.) Tapewounds have relatively low string tension, which is even lower on a short-scale bass. The string's tape muffles its overtones so the fundamental tone is emphasized. They get you closer to the feel and sound of an acoustic bass, and I think they're a great complement for a short-scale, semi-hollow Starfire.