And so it begins.....F-50R repair/resurrection.

[Westerly Wood]

Double pickguards are less of a tonal issue than the moustache bridge, because the double pickguards are in an area where very little sound/vibration is happening. The moustache bridge is sitting in the middle of the lower bout, which is where the sound originates. I think of the miustache bridge, or any excessively large bridge, as acting as an added brace, on top of the soundboard. I can see no way that it can be other than a tonal detriment.

J45s/J50s, SJNs can be great sounding guitars, so I don’t think all Gibsons are bad. I justhave never heard a J200 that sounded good. It may be that I expect a different sound. I have heard Martin J40s before, and they sound good, as did my F-50R before it went in for repair. Maybe I expected more from “The King of the Flattops”, but it comes across as more of a minor noble than a king.

That makes sense. I remember Martin guitars struggling in the 70s due to a change in the heavy wood of the bridge plate. Sounds right on then, your synopsis.

 

[kostask]

Oh, bursts are great. See if your luthier can put on one something like this one on my JF30-12....

I don't know, but maybe Bruce was joking (since he recently got his J200). I'm not a big fan of the moustache either, but the one on my "rosewood burst" Songwriter 12-string is growing on me, especially since the guitar sounds so good....

I am not a fan of the bridge, but the sunburst is just gorgeous. Gibson really has a way with sunbursts.

 

[Westerly Wood]

I am not a fan of the bridge, but the sunburst is just gorgeous. Gibson really has a way with sunbursts.

Their J-45 burst is my favorite. Classy. Understated. Dark.

 

[Brucebubs]

I was only kidding about the mustache bridge - but I do love it on the SJ-200, particularly the 4 bar insert version.
I really liked the Martin CEO-8 which was a cheeky nod to Gibson but the plain bridge just doesn't do it for me.

By the way guys .... I'd love to own a Guild F-50R too.
There's one down here I'm considering https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/nor...ry-high-quality-usa-made-mint-con-/1270131025

 

[chazmo]

Bruce, I hope you get your chance someday.

Kostas, crossing my fingers for you!

 

[kostask]

Finally, an idea of what the final product will look like. Luthier says a lot of work still to be done, but a good general idea of the final sunburst shape and colour. First picture is at the beginning of the process. Second is close to final version. Like Westerly Wood, I love the old J45 Sunbursts, and asked for that type of burst to be done.

 

[Westerly Wood]

Awesome! This F50R is already deservedly famous.

 

[Stuball48]

Niiiiice looking restoration so far.

 

[kostask]

Sorry to be constantly updating this thead, I'm sure that many are starting to get a little bored of the blow by blow updates.

The close to final colour and shape are below. I am very happy with the sunburst, really has that 40s-50s J45 vibe to it. Luthier says that there may be another coat or two of the black to be put on, clear coats to be added, and a bunch of finish sanding, as well as putting on the new bridge.

 

[cutrofiano]

Is that some sort of joke I don't get?
Do I have to be polite and positive instead of being honest?

The guitar is - after all the stunning wood work - totally ruined that way :-(
Why don't you take all the old color off and renew the painting on the entire top?
After sanding all the old varnish down the original wood and the new wood will have the same degree of brightness.
With the new varnish it will look like a perfectly repaired guitar with it's life on the wood surface to be experienced.
After only a few years it will all darken naturally, equally and beautifully.

Sorry for being so very German,
Moritz

 

[Rambozo96]

Some projects take time. Rome wasn’t built in a day you know?

 

[Westerly Wood]

Awesome!

 

[kostask]

Moritz,

You don't have to be politically correct, at least with me.

In your opinion, the guitar is ruined. You are of course, entitiled to your opinion, and it is not a viewpoint that I disagree with completely. You can look at the eariler parts of this thread, and understand that I originally wanted to have the guitar painted in a natural colour. It was tried, over a dozen times, to get the new wood to come close to matching the old wood. It did not work. My luthier, who you can see, it very careful in what he does, was not happy with the results, and neither was I. We jointly made the decision to go with a sunburst. The final form of the sunburst was left up to me, and he met my expectations. It is NOT ideal, but it is what is what is possible, and what I wanted. Your opinion is that the guitar is ruined; fine. But I own the guitar, and I have chosen this path. In the end, this is not something you will need to live with, it is something that I will have to live with, and I'm just fine, overjoyed in fact, to live with.

 

[Westerly Wood]

I love the burst. The decision was a brilliant one. Can’t wait for the final result.

 

[Brucebubs]

A great guitar being rescued can only ever be a positive thing.
Looking forward to seeing more.

 

[bobouz]

Thank you Kostask for the update. Honestly, I’ve been hoping for an update since your earlier posts, and wondered if we’d be getting another one - it’s a cool project to follow & congrats on your persistence to see it through. But at this point, I must step in as a Gibson fanboy & defender of the mustache bridge (not for your guitar, of course!). First of all, I love it in a plain version with no inlays - one of my favorite bridges ever (along with the Guild two-point). But more importantly regarding tone, it does not out of hand ruin a jumbo Gibson. I’ve played a lot of them, and I will admit, they vary tremendously from one example to the next. But you find a good one, and it’s the proverbial sound of a rumbling bass throated angel singing. I have both a Guild and Gibson jumbo in maple, and to hear them, one might think these two examples come from a connected DNA, regardless of mustache bridges or arched backs - they have that much of a similar vibe, but with their own nuanced variations.

Here’s my plain-jane 2000 J-100xtra, which tonally prevailed over a number of fancier super-jumbo competitors when It was purchased new:

 

[kostask]

I don't doubt that there are good J200s, or other Gibson guitars with moustache bridges that sound good. I do, however, have no doubt that the percentage of such guitars is lower than it would be for guitars that use simpler, smaller bridges. I have only heard 3-4 J200s, as there are not that many around in this part of the world. 3 were in a luthier's shop (same one who is doing the work on my F50R), and one in a guitar store (pre-Covid). All left me cold, and considering what they go for these days, I would have expected far more tonally. While appointments may be great (not to my taste, but to each their own), I do expect some life out of any guitar in this price range. I have heard any number of J45s make those J200s sound like they are full of sand (don't get me started about that 1930s J35). Again, I "THINK" that the moustache bridge has something to do with it, and in the basic theory of how acoustic guitars work, they are definitely a big No-No.

As I have said before, I would really like to hear a J200, or in your example, the J100xtra, with a smaller, lighter, "regular" bridge. I suspect that they would sound better with the simpler, smaller bridge. I love the looks of your J100xtra, but the bridge is still a sore spot with me. Doesn't mean that you or others don't like it, and more power to you. Just not my cup of tea, and while I would never buy a J200, I would definitely like a J45, J50 or SJ/SJN. I am also not a fan of the Gibson "birds" (Doves, Hummingbirds, etc.), or the square shoulder J series guitars. Gibson has a great slope shoulder design, and should not have come out with the square shoulder design, but again, they have their fans, and more power to them.

 

[bobouz]

I would definitely like a J45, J50 or SJ/SJN. I am also not a fan of the Gibson "birds" (Doves, Hummingbirds, etc.), or the square shoulder J series guitars. Gibson has a great slope shoulder design, and should not have come out with the square shoulder design, but again, they have their fans, and more power to them.

Well, we do agree on those points. I have a J-45 Rosewood from 2002, and J-50 from 2015 - they're two of my favorite guitars. But Gibson's square-shoulder dreads just don't click with me at all - in fact that's true of most square-shoulder dreads (but for some reason I own four of them: one Martin, one Ibanez, and two Guilds!).

Bottom line, we like what we like for a diverse assortment of reasons, and it's all good.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

idk, it kind of looks like a spoiled avocado.

 

[Stuball48]

Tried to download my Chris Bozung CB Super he custom built for me but no success. I wanted is to sound like or very near a cross between a J200 and F50R. The bridge is close to mustache but not exactly, a cross between, also.
The best way to hear and see it is to go to "Search" section of LTG and type in, "Chris Bozung Stuball48's new toy" and that should bring it up. Best look is at very last.