And so it begins.....F-50R repair/resurrection.

[kostask]

It may have shrunk and cracked, and rather than rebind the neck, the previous owner just chose to replace it with strips of ebony. Rebinding an entire neck takes some skill, and depending on who is doing it, can get expensive. Breaks in neck binding can be repaired to the point where they would be invisible, but it takes a lot of time and patience. Neck binding, just like body binding, has been known to shrink and crack over time, just like a lot of plastics do.

If it bugs you enough, you can always have the strips removed and the neck rebound. Its going to cost, and you have to find a really, really good guitar repair person. There are some on this board who have recommended some good US based luthiers, so one of them may be able to do it.

 

[Nuuska]

. . .. I sometimes help him out with some of my background in electronics manufacturing and computers, so it isn't always one directional.

Over here we call it back scratching - !I scratch your back - you scratch mine!"

 

[cutrofiano]

BTW, he has seen just about every manufacturer’s guitars with a badly placed bridge, including Martin, Taylor, Gibson, Larrivee, Collins, and also handbuilt guitars.

On the right side: Martin, Taylor, Gibson and Guild (covered by the bridge).
On the bridge: Larrivee and handbuilt guitars.
On the left side: Collins (red car). And unknown luthier.

 

[chazmo]

Hey, Kostas,

This is an awesome rebuild that you've got going on here.

I have a comment about the bridge placement discussion... I think the only thing that matters in terms of intonation is how the neck is fretted in relation to the length of each string. I.e., the leading edge between the nut and saddle. The placement of the bridge and the pinholes, etc. will all affect tone of course, but it's the saddle that determines each string's length. The bridge could be "off" in terms of placement, as long as the saddle slot is cut correctly into the bridge (and all the pin holes are behind the saddle). Of course if the bridge has a pre-routed slot then that's not the case.

I can't honestly remember what I saw being done in final assembly at the New Hartford factory, but I do remember them applying bridges there and using a jig similar to what your luthier is showing. I think the New Hartford folks had pre-routed bridges, but memory fails....

 

[kostask]

Hey, Kostas,

This is an awesome rebuild that you've got going on here.

I have a comment about the bridge placement discussion... I think the only thing that matters in terms of intonation is how the neck is fretted in relation to the length of each string. I.e., the leading edge between the nut and saddle. The placement of the bridge and the pinholes, etc. will all affect tone of course, but it's the saddle that determines each string's length. The bridge could be "off" in terms of placement, as long as the saddle slot is cut correctly into the bridge (and all the pin holes are behind the saddle). Of course if the bridge has a pre-routed slot then that's not the case.

I can't honestly remember what I saw being done in final assembly at the New Hartford factory, but I do remember them applying bridges there and using a jig similar to what your luthier is showing. I think the New Hartford folks had pre-routed bridges, but memory fails....

Chazmo,
You are completely correct about the intonation. However, if you look at the above picture with the Saddlematic, you will see that if the current bridge slot was filled in, and a new saddle slot was cut in the correct position, there would be next to no space between the new saddle slot and the low E bridge pin hole; certainly not enough to be comfortable with. This is what lead to the conclusion that the saddle slot (and by extension, the bridge pins) is in the wrong place. Both the bridge that was on the guitar, and the replacement bridge are Guild factory original (fairly certain about the bridge originally on the guitar, absolutely sure of the replacement because it came from Hand Moust).

Note that the pointers on the Saddlematic are where the front edge of the saddle slot is to go. You need to go back (towards the bridge pins) by the width of the saddle to be used to see the clearance between the saddle and the low E bridge pin. Saddles can have various widths (1/16” and 3/32” being most common), but even using a narrow saddle will not create sufficient space between the saddle slot and the low E bridge pin.

The new bridge, when put into the correct position so that the front edge of the saddle slot is in the correct place (as determined by the Saddlemaric) is showing that the bridge pins need to be moved back by less than the diameter of a bridge pin. So, the existing bridge pin holes are being filled in, and once the glue dries, new holes will be drilled in the correct location.

 

[kostask]

Further update today. Not great news, but not a disaster, either (may be of some interest to Nokomite):

This is a picture of the neck, as the luthier was getting ready to make a new nut. See pictures below:





The fretboard has become unglued from the nut slot down to about the second fret. You can see where the luthier has pulled back the binding, and is in the process of gluing it back down (that's why there are two plexi-glass wedges in place at the fingerboard/neck joint). The fingerboard and the binding will be glued back down properly.

The part that may interest Nokomite is that the binding on the bass side of the fingerboard broke off, but the neck binding on the treble side is still flexible. Goes back to the discussion regarding why the neck binding on his F50R is missing; the binding may have cracked/broken off, and the owner may have decided to just replace the binding with strips of ebony instead, fearing that it would happen again.

 

[hansmoust]

The part that may interest Nokomite is that the binding on the bass side of the fingerboard broke off, but the neck binding on the treble side is still flexible. Goes back to the discussion regarding why the neck binding on his F50R is missing; the binding may have cracked/broken off, and the owner may have decided to just replace the binding with strips of ebony instead, fearing that it would happen again.

Don't think that the binding on Nokomite's guitar was replaced with ebony strips. With what I can see in the photos that were posted in Nokomite's thread, I believe that the bottom part of the groove, which is very narrow at that particular spot, was simply removed ........ sanded, chiseled or scraped away; at least that's what the photos that Nokomite posted, tell me. I may be wrong, but it would be very easy to check by measuring the actual width of the neck, which would be narrower now if my theory is correct.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[kostask]

Don't think that the binding on Nokomite's guitar was replaced with ebony strips. With what I can see in the photos that were posted in Nokomite's thread, I believe that the bottom part of the groove, which is very narrow at that particular spot, was simply removed ........ sanded, chiseled or scraped away; at least that's what the photos that Nokomite posted, tell me. I may be wrong, but it would be very easy to check by measuring the actual width of the neck, which would be narrower now if my theory is correct.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

You may be right, but if so, that is borderline insane. The amount of work to remove that amount of wood, then refinish the neck, as well as the impact to the value of the guitar, is massive. Not to mention that its not like F50R’s neck is overly wide to start with. You are right, the only real way to tell is to measure the fretboard width, probably at a few points (just to be sure), say at the nut, and at the 12th fret or so.

 

[hansmoust]

You are right, tge only real way to tell is to measure the fretboard width, probably at a few points (just ro be sure), say at tge nut, and at the 12th fret or so.

Let's re-post at Nokomite's original thread, so we won't dilute (or pollute depending on how you look at it) your restoration thread any further!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[kostask]

As hard as it may to believe, the guitar is finished. Luthier texted me this afternoon that the guitar is complete. New bridge is in place, fingerboard and binding are re-glued, saddle and nut are made and intonated, and it sounds great. I don't have it in hand yet, I will probably be picking it up on Tuesday-Wednesday. Pictures below:

 

[CLMacPherson]

What a terrific outcome. The Jumbo breathes again!

 

[adorshki]

As hard as it may to believe, the guitar is finished. Luthier texted me this afternoon that the guitar is complete. New bridge is in place, fingerboard and binding are re-glued, saddle and nut are made and intonated, and it sounds great. I don't have it in hand yet, I will probably be picking it up on Tuesday-Wednesday. Pictures below:

Y'know, if ya squint just right, you can see the banjo in 'er.

 

[kostask]

in light of the bass response that this had before all the work that was done, I would call it more like "The Dragon arises from the ashes".

 

[wileypickett]

Wow! And the first song you’ll play on it will be. . . ?!

 

[wileypickett]

Great to go back to page 1 and compare Before / After photos.

 

[chazmo]

Kostas, it looks great. And, you know what? Your sunburst really looks like a sun !!!!!!!!!

 

[Nokomite]

Oh happy day! It looks FANTASTIC and I bet it will sound as good. Can't wait to hear what you think of it in your hands.

 

[Nuuska]

Oh Happy Day !!!

 

[F312]

Kostas, it looks great. And, you know what? Your sunburst really looks like a sun !!!!!!!!!

Saying that made it look so much better.

 

[Br1ck]

Thank you so much for doing this.