NGD - 1963 S-200

BradHK

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GAS won again. I have a 1963 Thunderbird on it’s way to me. I don’t NEED another Thunderbird as I already have one and I just bought that 1965 Thunderbird with the Polara neck. However, this one just looked so clean and original, has a measured nut width of almost 1 3/4”, and we came to what I think was a very fair price. Hopefully it looks as good in person when it arrives! Photos to come...
 
GGJaguar

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Wow, congrats! You've got your Thunderbird mojo on full volume! Looking foward to your NGD report.
 
BradHK

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Teaser photo of the back taken by the seller (I know it is stupid but I hate posting NGD photos until I have the guitar in my hands and can take my own). I love the grain in this piece of mahogany. The finish is supposedly all original and it still has the Patent Pending decal under the kickstand and the “feet” that usually get removed during a refin. It is in the shippers possession and on its way so hopefully in just a few days I can take my own photos!

1665002287468.jpeg
 
GGJaguar

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Looks like it's gonna be a good one. :)
 
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matsickma

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Beauty!! Looks like the built in stand little rubber feet have been changed from black to white.
M
 
BradHK

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matsickma said:
Beauty!! Looks like the built in stand little rubber feet have been changed from black to white.
M
Click to expand...
The early ones were white. I think 1963 and 1964 were white as my 1964 Polara has the original white feet but my 1965 has black. I also believe when they switched to black they change how they were fitted to the guitar. My early versions with white feet fit into recessed drilled “holes” the same diameter as the feet. The black ones screw (or press) into smaller holes. The white ones are also not rubber but more of a nylon material and are pretty slippery. If somebody here has any additional details regarding when they changed from white to black or if I am incorrect in any of my statements please let me know.
 
BradHK

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Here is a photo of another 1963 with the original white feet. If you zoom in you can kind of see how they sit in recessed holes (I am currently traveling so I can’t take a picture of mine)

1665016516562.jpeg

Here is a 1964 with the same white feet

1665017138731.jpeg

here is a 1965 with the black feet. You can kinda see how these feet sit more on the surface kind of like the rubber feet on the bottom of furniture legs.

1665016648498.jpeg

Not sure if the transition happened in 1964 or 1965 but my rough “rule of thumb” is 1963-64 white and 1965 and later black.
 
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matsickma

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Ahh...never knew that! Had a variety of S50, S100 and S200 and never, to my memory, noticed white "feet".
That looks to be a near perfect looking guitar! Can't wait until it arrives and pictures provided. I lucked out years ago a got a later 60's model with Mickey Mouse pickups and symmetric head in pristine condition. Not often found at reasonable prices but they pop up occasionally.

M
 
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hansmoust

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BradHK said:
The early ones were white. I think 1963 and 1964 were white as my 1964 Polara has the original white feet but my 1965 has black. I also believe when they switched to black they change how they were fitted to the guitar. My early versions with white feet fit into recessed drilled “holes” the same diameter as the feet. The black ones screw (or press) into smaller holes. The white ones are also not rubber but more of a nylon material and are pretty slippery. If somebody here has any additional details regarding when they changed from white to black or if I am incorrect in any of my statements please let me know.
Click to expand...
It's about right! The change happened towards the end of 1964.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
BradHK

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matsickma said:
Ahh...never knew that! Had a variety of S50, S100 and S200 and nev, to my memory, noticed white "feet".
That looks to be a near perfect looking guitar! Can't wait until it arrives and pictures provided. I lucked out years ago a got a later 60's model with Mickey Mouse pickups and symmetric head in pristine condition. Not often found at reasonable prices but they pop up occasionally.

M
Click to expand...
I would love to compare the Mickey Mouse pups in an S-200 against the anti-hums. If I happen to stumble upon a nice S-200 with Mickey Mouse pups at a decent price I might succumb to GAS again. But, to be honest, I don’t seem to be actually trying to control my GAS
 
BradHK

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Guitar arrived earlier today. Unfortunately there were some originality issues. The first thing I did in my inspection was to pull the truss rod cover. The truss rod has been replaced with a newer hex head style rather than the original 1/4” nut. I also believe that the guitar has been refinished as the white feet have lacquer on them and there also is lacquer in the gap between the feet and the body. I am not in a good mood. I have contacted the seller through Reverb and requested to return. Here are some photos of the items noted above:

1665529253023.jpeg

1665529290057.jpeg
 
BradHK

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Unfortunately, this has been escalated to the Reverb escalation team. I sent photos to the seller and he said it came from a known collector and was verified by multiple known dealers as original. He was happy to accept a return but I would pay for shipping! It has a flippin‘ hex head modern truss rod installed! I guess none of those multiple known dealers bothered to take off the truss rod cover. When the fretboard was removed to replace the truss rod the binding was replaced and it was refretted with larger frets. The reason I can tell that the binding is not original is that it has Gibson style nibs that match the width of the larger frets! Oh, and the refinish to cover up all of that work. I will say that the work was excellent and this would be a great players grade guitar. but that was not how it was described and the price paid was for an original example. I will stop venting now
 
jp

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Wow, Brad. That sounds like a sticky wicket. Fortunately, any true Guild expert would know well enough to back your claims, since all the things you pointed out are dead giveaways.

Now, fingers crossed that Reverb knows how to handle this properly. Good luck!
 
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