Train wreck F-20

GuildyAsHell · Nov 7, 2021

davismanLV said:
I'm all about misdirection if it gains you another project guitar!!

She indulges my little abused orphan instrument rescue sickness. She spends her money on short term, instant gratification crap that doesn't hold any value, and she recognizes that my stuff is like investments. I’m a lucky man. Except for the part about the house being full of Amazon boxes and clothes and gadgets.

Opsimath · Nov 8, 2021

GuildyAsHell said:
She indulges my little abused orphan instrument rescue sickness. She spends her money on short term, instant gratification crap that doesn't hold any value, and she recognizes that my stuff is like investments. I’m a lucky man. Except for the part about the house being full of Amazon boxes and clothes and gadgets.

Gadgets are fun! Well, for a while, until the new wears off.

Nuuska · Nov 8, 2021

RBSinTo said:
. . . Mrs.AsHell isn't an idiot, . . .

This reminds me of the time when New York blues duo Satan&Adam were in Finland - I was roadie - tour manager - FOH-engineer - light guy etc . . .

Then we arrived my hometown and we were on street when my mother happened to pass by - Mr Satan bowed over almost nose touching ground and greeted my mother : "Hello Mrs Nuuska's Mother!"

He was extremely polite - and they had short conversation before we proceeded whatever we all were doing.

On this forum there is Mrs Frono - no Mrs Adorshki - SWMBO - etc . . . is there a list somwhere?

Love all this - my english improves with these tidbits - maybe some sunny day I can use some of it

RBSinTo · Nov 26, 2021

GuildyAsHell,
This thread has inspired me to take the plunge and try my hand at "building" a classical guitar from one of the larger sub-unit kits I mentioned earlier.
I bought one today from Solo Music Gear (here in Toronto) and while its assembly is child's play compared to your guitar's resurrection project, I am looking forward to the challenge.
Likely the biggest problem will be securing the bridge as I don't have any clamps with throats deep enough to work on this particular guitar, as the distance from the edge of the sound hole to the bridge's position is greater than their throat depth. However I have a couple of Rube Goldberg fixes in mind that should solve that problem. Actually the problem solving aspect of any project is for me the best part, even better than the end product, so I'm excited to get going.
Again, thanks for the inspiration
RBSinTo

Opsimath · Nov 26, 2021

RBSinTo said:
GuildyAsHell,
This thread has inspired me to take the plunge and try my hand at "building" a classical guitar from one of the larger sub-unit kits I mentioned earlier.
I bought one today from Solo Music Gear (here in Toronto) and while its assembly is child's play compared to your guitar's resurrection project, I am looking forward to the challenge.
Likely the biggest problem will be securing the bridge as I don't have any clamps with throats deep enough to work on this particular guitar, as the distance from the edge of the sound hole to the bridge's position is greater than their throat depth. However I have a couple of Rube Goldberg fixes in mind that should solve that problem. Actually the problem solving aspect of any project is for me the best part, even better than the end product, so I'm excited to get going.
Again, thanks for the inspiration
RBSinTo

Best of luck to you with your guitar build! Hoping the end result will be an instrument you enjoy building and playing!

davismanLV · Nov 26, 2021

RBSinTo said:
GuildyAsHell,
This thread has inspired me to take the plunge and try my hand at "building" a classical guitar from one of the larger sub-unit kits I mentioned earlier.
I bought one today from Solo Music Gear (here in Toronto) and while its assembly is child's play compared to your guitar's resurrection project, I am looking forward to the challenge.
Likely the biggest problem will be securing the bridge as I don't have any clamps with throats deep enough to work on this particular guitar, as the distance from the edge of the sound hole to the bridge's position is greater than their throat depth. However I have a couple of Rube Goldberg fixes in mind that should solve that problem. Actually the problem solving aspect of any project is for me the best part, even better than the end product, so I'm excited to get going.
Again, thanks for the inspiration
RBSinTo

We love a step by step chronicle, you know?? Indulge us on the journey.....

RBSinTo · Nov 29, 2021

davismanLV said:
We love a step by step chronicle, you know?? Indulge us on the journey.....

Tom,
I doubt that it will be as interesting as this thread was, but I'll start a new one and include some photos.
I'm just waiting to see the food vacuumming systems that our kids have, as, if effective, I plan to use the vacuum method to secure the bridge, rather than buying a bunch of expensive deep-throated clamps that I'll likely never use again. Once I decide on the best method to secure the bridge, I'll get going, likely finishing the components before assembly.
RBSinTo

Nuuska · Nov 29, 2021

RBSinTo said:
. . . I plan to use the vacuum method to secure the bridge, . . .

HAH !

This reminds me of episode #16 in fantastic norwegian series "Don't do this at home!"

List of Ikke gjør dette hjemme episodes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They wrapped a caravan in plastic and managed to collapse it with just regular vacum cleaner.

Before that they had hauled in a carcass of a dear or like and studying how fast the flys multiply - horror - horror.

But yeas - vacum has power if you can address it correctly.

RBSinTo · Nov 29, 2021

Nuuska said:
HAH !

This reminds me of episode #16 in fantastic norwegian series "Don't do this at home!"

List of Ikke gjør dette hjemme episodes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They wrapped a caravan in plastic and managed to collapse it with just regular vacum cleaner.

Before that they had hauled in a carcass of a dear or like and studying how fast the flys multiply - horror - horror.

But yeas - vacum has power if you can address it correctly.

RBSinTo · Nov 29, 2021

Nuuska said:
HAH !

This reminds me of episode #16 in fantastic norwegian series "Don't do this at home!"

List of Ikke gjør dette hjemme episodes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They wrapped a caravan in plastic and managed to collapse it with just regular vacum cleaner.

Before that they had hauled in a carcass of a dear or like and studying how fast the flys multiply - horror - horror.

But yeas - vacum has power if you can address it correctly.

Nuuska,
I wasn't planning on trying to collapse an entire Music Store, or Rhinoceros, but merely apply enough atmospheric pressure to an area just slightly larger than the bridge plate on top of the sound box to keep the bridge in place until the glue sets.
However, your post does bring up an important point, which is, how do I brace the interior of the sound box to ensure that the atmospheric pressure doesn't cause it to collapse?
Since the sound hole is too small for me to put my hand inside, I likely won't be able to easily get a wood brace inside, so I was thinking a tennis ball might work.
Glue or duct tape a shoelace to it. Force it in with a screwdriver or some such, and afterwards, pull it back, and if necessary puncture it to allow it to be slightly deflated, and more easily removed.
This project is becoming more and more interesting, and the parts aren't even out of the box yet!
Good stuff.
RBSinTo

Nuuska · Nov 29, 2021

Perhaps you might be able to attach the sides of the vacum bag/sheet on the guitar top - that was my first idea when I read about your plan. So not the whole guitar inside a bag . But a sheet covering bridge + 4 inches around it - taped to be fit while vacum developes.

RBSinTo · Nov 29, 2021

Nuuska said:
Perhaps you might be able to attach the sides of the vacum bag/sheet on the guitar top - that was my first idea when I read about your plan. So not the whole guitar inside a bag . But a sheet covering bridge + 4 inches around it - taped to be fit while vacum developes.

Nuuska,
That is precisely what I planned to do.
Take a bag and cut it down to just fit an area slightly larger than the bridge, and lay it over the freshly glued bridge and tape the plastic bag's cut edges to the top of the sound box, attach the hose to the valve and create a vacuum inside that small area to press down the bridge until the glue sets. My only other concern is the pressure on the top of the sound box causing cracks or worse, a collapse of the wood of the box's top.
RBSinTo

Nuuska · Nov 29, 2021

There will be no pressure towards inside of box - my only cocern is - will there be enough pressure to clamp the bridge.

geoguy · Nov 29, 2021

You won't like the price of this gizmo, but this video shows one way of vacuum-clamping a bridge:

RBSinTo · Nov 29, 2021

Nuuska said:
There will be no pressure towards inside of box - my only cocern is - will there be enough pressure to clamp the bridge.

Nuuska,
I will be borrowing a sealer from either our Son or Daughter, and plan to test it first. If it fails to provide enough vacuum to do the job, I'll concede defeat and purchase the clamps. Time will tell.
RBSinTo

RBSinTo · Nov 29, 2021

geoguy said:
You won't like the price of this gizmo, but this video shows one way of vacuum-clamping a bridge:

Geoguy,
The guitar kit cost $250.00 CDN, and the clamps are about $30.00 each and about three are required, so I'm not inclined to buy them if I can do a Mcgyver with the food vacuum system, and certainly won't even consider the Luthier's bridge vacuum gizmo.
Unless I have an epiphany and suddenly become a full time Luthier, this is a one-shot project. But thanks for the information.
RBSinTo

davismanLV · Nov 29, 2021

Okay this is silly. You're in Canada, so do you have anything like Harbor Freight stores?? It's a discount tool and supply store and they have 8" deep throat C-clamps for $6.50 American. Two should do. So that's $14. I mean, you're near Toronto so they MUST have things like this?? Here's the ad for the American store:

8 in. Deep Throat C-Clamp

Amazing deals on this 8In Deep Throat C-Clamp at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

And if you go to Google you can search for "guitar bridge clamps" just like I did and also put "Toronto" and voila!! What do you think??

guitar bridge clamps toronto canada - Google Search

So yeah... not that much to not crush the soundbox with some vacuum thing.

RBSinTo · Nov 30, 2021

davismanLV said:
Okay this is silly. You're in Canada, so do you have anything like Harbor Freight stores?? It's a discount tool and supply store and they have 8" deep throat C-clamps for $6.50 American. Two should do. So that's $14. I mean, you're near Toronto so they MUST have things like this?? Here's the ad for the American store:

8 in. Deep Throat C-Clamp

Amazing deals on this 8In Deep Throat C-Clamp at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

And if you go to Google you can search for "guitar bridge clamps" just like I did and also put "Toronto" and voila!! What do you think??

guitar bridge clamps toronto canada - Google Search

So yeah... not that much to not crush the soundbox with some vacuum thing.

Tom,
I didn't arrive on this planet last night.
Do you really think I didn't already do a search for these clamps?
And no, we don't have anything like Harbour Freight stores here in Canada. Closest outlets to us are in New York State. However, with shipping their prices even to me here are very reasonable, vastly less expensive than any local sources.
As I've already noted, if the vacuum trick doesn't seem like it will work, I'll buy the clamps.
RBSinTo

siddhartha · Nov 30, 2021

GuildyAsHell said:
Well it’s done other than putting a pickguard on. Overall I’m happy with the rebuild. The finish aspect, not as much but that can be fixed. It’s a very fun guitar to play and I can’t wait for Christmas to see my wife open it. She’s been making comments about wanting to learn to play for awhile now, so now she’ll have something to learn on and pass on to the kids when they are older and I won’t have to cringe every time it gets bumped or dinged. Thanks to all of you on here for welcoming a relative Guild newbie and for following this massive thread. It’s been a great experience and now I’m going to be hunting for an F-30 once we get settled into our new house. We’ve had some unfortunate drama involving real estate and this project has been a welcome and much needed distraction from that.

this is absolutely gorgeous, and a sympathetic restoration. well done!

I'd have thought that damage would simply polish out....

RBSinTo · Dec 1, 2021

davismanLV said:
Okay this is silly. You're in Canada, so do you have anything like Harbor Freight stores?? It's a discount tool and supply store and they have 8" deep throat C-clamps for $6.50 American. Two should do. So that's $14. I mean, you're near Toronto so they MUST have things like this?? Here's the ad for the American store:

8 in. Deep Throat C-Clamp

Amazing deals on this 8In Deep Throat C-Clamp at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

And if you go to Google you can search for "guitar bridge clamps" just like I did and also put "Toronto" and voila!! What do you think??

guitar bridge clamps toronto canada - Google Search

So yeah... not that much to not crush the soundbox with some vacuum thing.

Tom,
I borrowed a food sealer from one of our kids last night and tried to fool with it this morning. Long story short: it won't work.
I went to the Harbor Freight web site, to order the 8" deep-throated C-clamps and was told that they don't ship to Canada!!!!!!!!!
I do have a bud in the US who has shipped me stuff in the past, but he just in the last week bid on an item on ebay, and shipped it to me yesterday, so I hesitate to bother him again so soon.
The guitar gods are looking down and laughing.
Perhaps I'll just return the kit, and resume working on my Time Machine, as it seems to be a far less complicated project.
RBinTo

Train wreck F-20

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