Highballing Lowballers

Guildedagain · Sep 24, 2021

Is it turning into a trend?

Say you got a $2k guitar on Reverb, someone sends you a $200 "offer".

Whadya do, ignore it? For 24 hours, just ignore it.

Then he's back, this time with $250?

What is this, brain damage?

No comms, just these stupid offers.

So, the light went on, I take his price, plus my original price = $2250 and here you go, you can have it for $250 more than I wanted.

Haven't had a lot of action in the way of counteroffers after this move, but the heartening thing is that Reverb - in their infinite wisdom = lack of obnoxious AI - will let you counteroffer these time wasters with "offers" even higher than your original price ;]

So, you got a $5k guitar and a guy makes a $500 "offer", feel free to counteroffer $50k.

Ridiculous behavior deserves the same in kind.

I wouldn't have posted this, but it just happened again, so I figured I'd share a solution that seems to work ;]

PS You can't stop this, but you can have some fun with it.

spoox · Sep 25, 2021

Having owned an antique shop for almost 50 years, I've had those type of offers face to face. When I decline their "offer" I would often get the response
"Hey...I can get one just like this (or of course, "better") at the X shop!"
"Then why aren't you there?"

When asked if I could do better, say on a $200 item, I would reply
"Sure--$250!"
"Wha?"
"Of course I would be doing better selling it for fifty dollars more--oh, you meant could you do better? Sorry, not here..."

One time after a customer haggled with me for an hour over a sideboard, I finally agreed to a price because we were getting another container of furniture
in and I could use the space. The guy showed up before I got to the shop and tried to tell my father that I said he didn't have to pay sales tax.
When I arrived and found out what he tried to pull, he said "You can't blame a fellow for trying" and I replied "I sure can!" and told him to get out and never come back. A week later a guy came and bought the item for the full tagged price--my dad and I were certain it was a friend of the "customer".

dreadnut · Sep 25, 2021

You never pay the sticker price in Mexico; that is just a starting point.

I went into a shop looking for some clip-on sunglasses and found them, $10. I offered him $5. The owner said "Do you want to screw around all day looking for sunglasses, or do you want to wear sunglasses?

It was such a great response that I gave him the $10.

AcornHouse · Sep 25, 2021

You can set your reverb shop to not even allow offers a certain percentage below your asking price. Not answering an offer affects your “Quick responder” status.

When I get a too low offer (that met my threshhold) that doesn’t even give a reasoning, or gives a stupid reasoning (like the guy who expected me to deduct that amount of taxes he’d have to pay), I just decline without a counteroffer. Those types aren’t looking for a reasonable middle ground; it’s just a waste of time.

Guildedagain · Sep 25, 2021

In this case, the person declined my counteroffer pretty quickly.

Do buyers get demerits for not counteroffering quickly enough?

My "quick responder" status must be in shreds, I've let a bunch of these expired unanswered over the last couple years.

Then the offers started getting lower, and repeating with pitiable increases, like going from $750 to $775 on a $4500 guitfiddle.

I'm glad I posted this, the more you know... I will go into my settings and see if I can weed this out.

Earlier this year, I posted a bunch of pedals with no "best offer" and they all sold quickly. Each ad said "this is already the best price on Reverb, therefore offers are turned off".

Incidentally, I do not use "Bump", it is silly, costs you money, and is prob the most ridiculous feature on Reverb.

Canard · Sep 25, 2021

I usually build in a low-ball negotiation margin into the price I ask for things on CL, a buffer of sorts. It allows people to play the silly game of negotiation, grinding the price down to what I wanted and what I thought was fair for whatever is being sold.

If I like the people who just hand over the cash at my buffered up asking prices, I often hand some of the cash back and thank them for being a decent human beings.

If I, myself, make insane low ball offers on something, it is because I do not have enough money at the time in my slush-fund discretionary budget and there is something for sale that I really, really want. I am polite and apologetic, saying I know my offer is way less than what the item is worth, but the offer is what I can currently afford. I generally leave my "bid" as a standing offer with a 3-or-4-month-away "best before date." I once put in a $900 bid on a lovely drool-worthy archtop for sale locally which generally had a Reverb asking price of about $2700. Three months later, the seller's wife phoned me and said, "He will take your offer."

I didn't feel entirely great about this purchase, but I bought the guitar anyway, evil bastard that I am. And the $900 was truly what I could afford at that moment.

The guitar is lovely.

fronobulax · Sep 25, 2021

Someone reported a lot of lowball offers from The Bonfires Vintage so perhaps repeatedly increasing lowball offers is now a business model.

When I owned an antique shop and had to do my time minding the store, I would get a couple of customers a week who were there to haggle and not to buy. They would pick a $5.00 item and offer me $3 or ask what's the best I could do? Either way I would offer $4.00 which was the best I could do wearing my clerk's (not owner's) hat. They would counter with $3.50 and I would respond with $4.00 or "what part of "best offer" don't we understand?" Most of the time they would leave muttering under their breath since I wouldn't play their haggle game.

Guildedagain · Sep 25, 2021

Yard sale/antique store haggling can be really pitiable. Like the person who keeps coming back to make ridiculous offers, always walking away empty handed...

Was having a yard sale - mistake - when selling house. Person making offer in broken English for very nice USA set of drill bits for $20, "Fifty Cents" apparently the only two words he knew, I got tired of playing this game real quick. All I'm thinking is please leave and never come back.

Another legendary time, back in the CL meet up - pre Covid - meet up days, I meet a guy at "Dick's Hamburgers" with a set of Chevy 8 hole white spoke mags that are super clean, price, $100, and they're in my wagon and we can't cart em around all day, we got stuff to p'up in town.

So he pulls up in Chevy p'up with the most horrible rusted out rims, parks, gets out, looks at the wheels, he's got this throat thing like the guy in the cigarette commercials - the new cigarette commercials, not the old ones ;] - and he says, through that voice box "I'll give you Twenny". I'm like, "look at these wheels, gorgeous vintage USA made white spokes?" Maybe $20 each ( you fool!) not $20 for the set.

He's like "I'll give you Twenny". I guess when you have one of those throat things you don't want to use too many words.

I says, they'll make your truck look good again. He says "I can paint my wheels". So he could manage short sentences.

So I'm thinking whytheflock are we here then? Existential crisis in a fast food parking lot.

So that day was my kid's Bday, and I figured $20 would help pay for some pizzas, so I caved and let him have the wheels.

Me and wife still joke about it, "I'll give you Twenny" ;] I can just imagine what he's like at the cathouses ;]

fronobulax · Sep 25, 2021

When I was kid my parents sometimes went to the racetrack at Saratoga. They weren't gamblers but they liked hanging out and watching the horses. They would take $20 and bet on some races but it was never about the gambling - more like $20 for 4 hours of entertainment (like paying for a movie or a concert). With that as background I believe there are a lot of people who consider haggling as fun, cheap entertainment. Buying something at their price is always rewarding but it is a side effect and not their goal.

adorshki · Sep 25, 2021

Guildedagain said:
Me and wife still joke about it, "I'll give you $20", I can just imagine what he's like at the cathouses ;]

My grampa told me of a, uh, "friend of his" who showed up at one of Carson City NV's establishments and was greeted at the door by the madam, who inquired "May I help you sir?"

"I'm here for a girl" "Really sir, are you sure?"

"Of course I'm sure, this is Rosie Palmer's, right? You know what I want!"

"Possibly, but old man, I'm afraid you've had it"

"Really? (Pulling out wallet): How much do I owe you?"

donnylang · Sep 25, 2021

As someone who sometimes lowballs (and sometimes gets it), and also sells a lot of stuff and gets crazy lowballs too … I have a nuanced view on these things.

I’ll use Reverb as the primary example. I think if someone has something listed with an offer option without a minimum- it’s fair game. And I’ll play it as buyer and seller.

If there’s something I want- and the price is fair, I might throw a slightly less offer because: why not? Offers are on the table. For instance, if there’s a $1000 guitar I want- and that’s a fair price- I might offer $850.

If there’s something I REALLY want and the price is fair to cheap- I might throw an offer out and wait a couple hours. If no response, I might just buy it for the asking price.

If there’s something I’m not so certain I want, or not so certain I want at the asking price- I might send along a “what I’ll pay for it” offer. For instance, maybe a $1000 guitar is a little beat up or I’m just not sure I really want it enough to spend the $1000, I might throw a $700 or even $600. Sometimes, these offers are accepted. And hey, if no one else is buying and my $600 works for the seller- why not?

Now as a seller- everything is an opportunity to negotiate. I’ll play the game. Why get offended?

If I’m selling the $1000 guitar and someone offers me $200- sure I might laugh a little, but I’ll send along a $900 counter. True, they never accept but hey I’ll play.

It can be fun!

I think the real problem is people are very different with their strategy in selling. I usually assume that I’m going to sell for less than my asking, so I price in at least some wiggle room. Sometimes I start high and go from there- surprisingly, sometimes people just buy it at the asking. I consider 30-40% wiggle room from my initial asking on most items, which I know is much wider/higher than most. Other items, I might start it very close to what I think I can get. To me, it depends on the item. If it’s rare and sought after, I’ll price on the higher side of what’s acceptable. If it’s a common beat up guitar that has issues- I might start it as low as I can go for a quick sale.

I think a lot of people factor in something like 5-10% (or none at all, even though they leave the “offer” option) and are offended when offers are lower than that.

Example might be I might list a $1000 guitar for $1200- expecting to maybe get $1200 but maybe sell for $750-900. Another person might list the same guitar for $900 and be offended at an $800 offer (“I’m already listing lower than the normal!”).

There was a guitar I bought- I thought the asking price was pretty dang good at $1100 but I had some reservations. I sent along a $900 offer and it was accepted immediately.

A different guitar was listed at $980, the seller flat out rejected my offer of $850, not even a counter. And $850 is generous for that one IMO. Needless to say, that guitar is still on Reverb and has been for months without any change in price. And still has the “make offer” option.

Guildedagain · Sep 25, 2021

The factors that are important to me in a sale, how much do you really like the guitar, how long has it been listed, how many guitars do you have right now*, do you need money, stuff like that.

So if I didn't really like the guitar, and it's been listed for a year, and someone comes out the blue making a half price offer, my gut feeling is always to accept, and be thankful.

But you can rub people the wrong way, and I'd never sent someone a silly offer, to me, they're offensive.

So if I want something bad, I make a decent offer, more than I want to pay, to strike a balance between economics and feelings.

E.O. Wilson says what's wrong with us is simply " Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and god like technologies. That's all.

And so it's best not to sour a deal by insulting the seller. I done - cowboy talk - lots of in person deals on vintage guitars, stores, parking lots, to many to recount. It's like selling a car - done that too - "meet n' greet", small talk, easy sale/purchase. It's about finding a bond, and for me, if you're a jackwagon to start, maybe that's not where I want my baby to go, if the guitar means a lot to me, and most of them do, because I've had them so long, because of my extremely high prices ;]

I should be High Country Guitars

I've had some guitar on Reverb as long as Reverb has been on.

Then somebody rattles my cage with a question like neck width or something and then I'll go play it and realize how much I like it and can't sell it, pull the ad. A year later, I'll rediscover it languishing in a case and relist it.

My Bday next month, all I have to do is dig through some cases, the surprises await, my forbidden '72 nickel Dobro, too loud...

* I don't count guitars, it's either too many, or not enough ;]

fronobulax · Sep 25, 2021

donnylang said:
Why get offended?

Primarily when the context makes it clear that the lowballer is not a serious buyer.

The absence of anything but lowball offers could be sign that something is overpriced.

donnylang · Sep 25, 2021

Guildedagain said:
The factors that are important to me in a sale, how much do you really like the guitar, how long has it been listed, how many guitars do you have right now*, do you need money, stuff like that.

So if I didn't really like the guitar, and it's been listed for a year, and someone comes out the blue making a half price offer, my gut feeling is always to accept, and be thankful.

But you can rub people the wrong way, and I'd never sent someone a silly offer, to me, they're offensive.

So if I want something bad, I make a decent offer, more than I want to pay, to strike a balance between economics and feelings.

E.O. Wilson says what's wrong with us is simply " Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and god like technologies. That's all.

And so it's best not to sour a deal by insulting the seller. I done - cowboy talk - lots of in person deals on vintage guitars, stores, parking lots, to many to recount. It's like selling a car - done that too - "meet n' greet", small talk, easy sale/purchase. It's about finding a bond, and for me, if you're a jackwagon to start, maybe that's not where I want my baby to go, if the guitar means a lot to me, and most of them do, because I've had them so long, because of my extremely high prices ;]

I should be High Country Guitars

I've had some guitar on Reverb as long as Reverb has been on.

Then somebody rattles my cage with a question like neck width or something and then I'll go play it and realize how much I like it and can't sell it, pull the ad. A year later, I'll rediscover it languishing in a case and relist it.

My Bday next month, all I have to do is dig through some cases, the surprises await, my forbidden '72 nickel Dobro, too loud...

* I'm not counting.

Oh yeh the weird questions etc are red flags to me.

I had that ‘64 F212 on eBay and Reverb a month or two back. The F212 sold on Reverb a month or two back. I have the ‘66 D40 up now, and I get a question on eBay about the F212, coming via the D40 listing.

The guy asks “are you going to delist the guitar?” in reference to the F212. I let him now it has sold, then he comes back with “I thought it had no bids.” I tell him it sold on Reverb, and he comes back with “I was saving up for it.” Then maybe you could have contacted me two months back, and we could have worked something out?

Lots of odd people out there, and if I get an indication that the person (buyer or seller) is one of them, I tend to run ha.

donnylang · Sep 25, 2021

fronobulax said:
Primarily when the context makes it clear that the lowballer is not a serious buyer.

The absence of anything but lowball offers could be sign that something is overpriced.

Yeh I guess I my philosophy is if they’re playing games, I’m fine with playing games too.

Offer me $100 on a $1000 guitar? I’ll counter with $990. Ha

jfilm · Sep 25, 2021

donnylang said:
Oh yeh the weird questions etc are red flags to me.

I had that ‘64 F212 on eBay and Reverb a month or two back. The F212 sold on Reverb a month or two back. I have the ‘66 D40 up now, and I get a question on eBay about the F212, coming via the D40 listing.

The guy asks “are you going to delist the guitar?” in reference to the F212. I let him now it has sold, then he comes back with “I thought it had no bids.” I tell him it sold on Reverb, and he comes back with “I was saving up for it.” Then maybe you could have contacted me two months back, and we could have worked something out?

Lots of odd people out there, and if I get an indication that the person (buyer or seller) is one of them, I tend to run ha.

I had a weird message on Reverb just yesterday- someone asking if I still had the Guild F-20 case that I sold almost four years ago. This listing pretty clearly shows "Listing Sold" meaning it was sold on Reverb. So not sure what this person was seeing. The old listing must have come up on Google, and the person messaged me about it without noticing.

spoox · Sep 25, 2021

Guildedagain said:
The factors that are important to me in a sale, how much do you really like the guitar, how long has it been listed, how many guitars do you have right now*, do you need money, stuff like that.

So if I didn't really like the guitar, and it's been listed for a year, and someone comes out the blue making a half price offer, my gut feeling is always to accept, and be thankful.

But you can rub people the wrong way, and I'd never sent someone a silly offer, to me, they're offensive.

So if I want something bad, I make a decent offer, more than I want to pay, to strike a balance between economics and feelings.

E.O. Wilson says what's wrong with us is simply " Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and god like technologies. That's all.

And so it's best not to sour a deal by insulting the seller. I done - cowboy talk - lots of in person deals on vintage guitars, stores, parking lots, to many to recount. It's like selling a car - done that too - "meet n' greet", small talk, easy sale/purchase. It's about finding a bond, and for me, if you're a jackwagon to start, maybe that's not where I want my baby to go, if the guitar means a lot to me, and most of them do, because I've had them so long, because of my extremely high prices ;]

I should be High Country Guitars

I've had some guitar on Reverb as long as Reverb has been on.

Then somebody rattles my cage with a question like neck width or something and then I'll go play it and realize how much I like it and can't sell it, pull the ad. A year later, I'll rediscover it languishing in a case and relist it.

My Bday next month, all I have to do is dig through some cases, the surprises await, my forbidden '72 nickel Dobro, too loud...

* I'm not counting.

Wow! E.O. Wilson! My fave rave! I'm always amazed by the references I find on this forum...
Back in the mid-seventies I tried an experiment with pricing, where I priced the items as low as possible while still making like a 20% profit.
No sales practically at all. Then I priced everything higher than my original prices and sold like crazy when dropping things to my original
tagged prices. For a lot of people, it's not what they pay, but what they can brag to their friends they paid through their "cleverness".

I'm still stoked about the Tacoma F412 I bought earlier this year--where the seller dropped the price to $1000 on the phone without my asking
(which I wouldn't have done as the $1200 price was crazy low to begin with).
"Are you sure?", I asked.
"Well, you seemed to know all about the guitar so I want you to have it!'.
That made up for a lot of bad customer karma through the years.

DrumBob · Sep 25, 2021

Every online gear transaction is as different as the individual buyer and seller's personalities. Some people are reasonable and nice to deal with, and some are jerks. Lately, I've been running into way too many scam artists and time wasters on CL. I'm selling a nice recent Danelectro guitar. Some kid responds and gives me his phone number. He agrees to my price and agrees to meet me at a certain store at a certain time. That day, I tried calling him, but got no answer. The meeting place wasn't far from where I was working that day, so I got to the meeting spot on time and waited and waited. He never showed up. I texted him and told him he wasted my time, and then told him something I can't repeat here. On another occasion, a potential buyer wanted me to meet a friend of his in the Jersey Meadowlands to pick up the guitar. Sensing a scam, I replied, I can ship it to you. From then on, he disappeared.

Then again, I have had very good CL transactions. I no longer sell on Reverb, because it's become a cesspool of stupid rules, high fees and too many lowball idiots since Etsy took over. I know a lot of sellers who are giving up on Reverb for those reasons.

If someone makes an extreme lowball offer, I admittedly get annoyed, and come back with a price I'm willing to take. They usually disappear quickly.

I once had a very nice vintage Gretsch drumset with cymbals for sale, with an asking price of $2000. I got a call from Ted Horowitz, aka Popa Chubby, the blues/rock guitarist from NYC. He offered me $400. I knew who he was, and told him, no way, Chubby, the price is $2000. He muttered something on the phone and hung up. I sold it two days later for $2000 to a guy who wanted this exact drumset. I made an $850 profit. Years later, I met Ted Horowitz at Alto Music in Middletown, NY, but didn't mention our previous conversation.

If I'm going to make an offer, I will usually drop down $50-100 from the asking price, depending on the item. I try to be reasonable, because i don't like blatant lowballers.

fronobulax · Sep 25, 2021

DrumBob said:
He never showed up.

The CL poster I got mavuser's latest NGD from told me to call 15 minutes before I got there. I didn't do that because I didn't think it was worth stopping the car or getting a ticket. I arrived on time and called. His response was not printable but he figured since he hadn't called I was a no show and when I called he had driven 10 minutes in the wrong direction on another errand. I waited, he showed up, we laughed and he explained he had had 56 CL no shows in two weeks. (He was selling the contents of his recording studio). The 15 minute call was his way of not wasting his time.

Rocky · Sep 27, 2021

jfilm said:
I had a weird message on Reverb just yesterday- someone asking if I still had the Guild F-20 case that I sold almost four years ago. This listing pretty clearly shows "Listing Sold" meaning it was sold on Reverb. So not sure what this person was seeing. The old listing must have come up on Google, and the person messaged me about it without noticing.

I had that happen recently for a super clean vintage amp. I'm guessing that the guy saw that the sale was over, and thought maybe I had decided to keep it.

What it did do is had me pull up the clips of that amp, and wonder why I'd ever sold it.

Highballing Lowballers

Enlightened Member

Member

Gone But Not Forgotten

Venerated Member

Enlightened Member

Senior Member

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods

Enlightened Member

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods

Reverential Member

Member

Enlightened Member

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods

Member

Member

Member

Member

Senior Member

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods

Senior Member