Collings owners?

Westerly Wood

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Amen, plus me for the love of the D-35. Just a phenomenal utility player. I took mine camping earlier this month and my buddy was like “man that thing has a beautiful voice.”

And D30 my D35 goes real good with EJ16S 😀
 

JohnnyMo

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Hey Chazmo, if you owned that guitar can you provide some info on it, just out of curiosity? It was a 1971 F-50R of course, so wondering if it was one of the Brazilian models or Indian? I have one with serial # 58788 F-50RNT, so late 1971. Pretty sure mine is Indian Rosewood. I got it from Guitar Center in PA in January 2019, way before Covid so prices were still up there at that time. Seems like it's in good shape but lacking volume so I suspect repairs were made or something happened, not sure.
Pictures outside to try to show grain of Rosewood. Looks like the back has some nice grain, yet color is not right for Brazilian. Too Brown?

Mirror shows Jan 7, 1971 and it was being advertised as a 1970 guitar so perhaps it was sold in 1970 and shipped out Jan 1971?

I have another F50R with the AD label in it, that one I posted earlier.

Anyways, really surprised that you guys know of that guitar of Frosty's! Unbelievable, this one must be really close serial number wise is my guess. Back looks like it could be Brazilian or highly figured Indian Rosewood. Really not sure on this one.

Here are some pictures of my Guitar:
Guild1971A.jpg
Guild1971B.jpg
Guild1971BCjpg.jpg
G.jpg
MirrorGuild1.jpg
 

Westerly Wood

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Definitely Indian rosewood Johnny. Nice looking F50R.
 

West R Lee

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The last I heard, Frosty had had a pretty bad hand injury.......bless his heart. Gosh I loved his playing. And B.........there is a "G" in Collings if you're doing an ebay search.

West
 

JohnnyMo

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Here's the label on my other F50R, this for sure is a 1970. And Brazilian Back for sure...Wood is separating from the binding and it was
retopped so probably had the double pickguards and they cracked out the original top, according to the guy I bought this one from.


Anyways, they are both nice guitars and just need some typical repairs for 50 year old instruments! Thanks for any information anyone might have. This one here is a killer loud guitar!


1970Guild.jpg
IMG_20200803_161436202.jpg
 

JohnnyMo

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Definitely Indian rosewood Johnny. Nice looking F50R.
Yeah, If you compare the 2 backs I would agree they are not the same wood, Rosewood seems redder, but the stain could be different as well.
 

chazmo

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Hey Chazmo, if you owned that guitar can you provide some info on it, just out of curiosity? It was a 1971 F-50R of course, so wondering if it was one of the Brazilian models or Indian? I have one with serial # 58788 F-50RNT, so late 1971. Pretty sure mine is Indian Rosewood. I got it from Guitar Center in PA in January 2019, way before Covid so prices were still up there at that time. Seems like it's in good shape but lacking volume so I suspect repairs were made or something happened, not sure.
Pictures outside to try to show grain of Rosewood. Looks like the back has some nice grain, yet color is not right for Brazilian. Too Brown?

Mirror shows Jan 7, 1971 and it was being advertised as a 1970 guitar so perhaps it was sold in 1970 and shipped out Jan 1971?

I have another F50R with the AD label in it, that one I posted earlier.

Anyways, really surprised that you guys know of that guitar of Frosty's! Unbelievable, this one must be really close serial number wise is my guess. Back looks like it could be Brazilian or highly figured Indian Rosewood. Really not sure on this one.

Here are some pictures of my Guitar:
JohnnyMo, we weren't really certain. I never did a scrach-n-smell test or anything to really have any idea. The back was almost certainly straight-grained Indian (like yours), but the sides had some figuring and mineral lines that possibly could've indicated Brazilian. Honestly, I really don't make much of that distinction, Johnny. It was an outstanding guitar. Period. :)

I also had a 1967 F-50R from Hoboken which was arched Brazilian (laminate, back and sides). Those were very rare. The soundboard had been replaced on that one in the 1970s by Augie LoPrinzi in New Jersey. The wood was spectacular to look at, but Frosty's (solid) '71 was a much more resonant guitar.

Final story... Frosty is partial to strings that last a long time and he sold the guitar to me with Thomastik Spectrums on it. I put some phosphor-bronze strings on it and it sounded like a different instrument (I preferred it this way). Moral of the story: beauty is in the ear of the beholder. :)
 

JohnnyMo

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Very sorry to hear about the hand injury, I work construction and also buck my own firewood so I am grateful to still have the use of both hands. I worry most about neuropathy or simply aging to the point I won't be able to play much anymore. It happens to everyone at some point. So I am trying to get down to just one or 2 guitars, one or 2 banjos, and my one fiddle, Ukelele, and bass guitar. That's it.

And nothing incredibly rare or valuable, yet all good "players grade" instruments. Like I said before I'll probably keep the Brazilian backed Guild above for sure. Not letting that one go for awhile. All of my other guitars might be on the trading block at some point!

Collings are nice, but I am thinking about a Santa Cruz Mahogany Dred or OM model perhaps a Cutaway. There you go, the old Guilds seem to have been an Odyssey that's been fulfilled! Yet if I found another Brazilian F-50R, I might consider that if it was all original and then let all these others go. Just speculating right now.

Just posting to let you guys know there are some f-50R's out there and they might be in circulation again at some future date! Not today, or next month, soon perhaps. I want to wait out this Covid deal before I sell anything. Seems like a buyers market right now!

(Yet no one has any money either, compared to 2 years ago, etc...) I missed a killer guitar for sale in Seattle, WA, for about 2500$ in Brazilian no less, another f-50R. That was about a year ago. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I think all my guitars are "projects" basically... except my 2001 Collings D2H, that thing is a monster! Anyways, take care, I'll check back in a few days!
 

JohnnyMo

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Thanks Chazmo, I bet it was Indian like the pictures I posted of my 1971. Hans M, told me it was Indian Rosewood and the other one most definitely is Brazilian. Maybe this will help others to tell the difference. From my experience I was all caught up in the excitement and thought it was Brazilian (the 71) but when I got the other one, I figured it was Indian. Way different looking grain. But could be different grain Brazilian of course, yet I doubt it.

I don't think it matters as much as people might think. Yet if you tap a piece of Brazilian and then a piece of Indian there is definitely a difference! All the Guild Experts are probably back on the East Coast where the factory was .
 

chazmo

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Hey, my advice is don't get too caught up in that, Johnny. It's pretty tough to determine whether something is Brazilian vs. Indian just by sight. The figure of the wood won't really tell you for sure because flats-sawn Indian can get pretty wild whereas if you look at older Martins you see a lot of straight-grain (quarter-sawn) Brazilian.

Just my $0.02, but if we're talking Guilds, truth is I've never met an F-50R or F-512 that I don't like. My favorites are generally lighter build instruments (like the early '70s or Tacoma-era onwards).
 

JohnnyMo

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Chazmo, thanks for the pointer there on the 1970, I think it needs to be totally taken apart and set up properly. Somehow when they replaced the top years ago they didn't get it quite right but it sounded really good all the same so they just played it like that.

I think it's stable, but it might even need a neck reset, new top, and then completely gone through. It would be worth it I think, price was at least 1,000$ lower due to the issues. It would have been better in hindsight to find a guitar that was less in need of repairs. Yet I had fun with this guitar! So I think it was worth it.

Sometimes a guy (or gal) has to find out for themselves the hard way, buy some instruments and then deal with the repair issues, etc...before they learn to be patient and to wait for a guitar that is in really good shape and was well cared for. I don't think I lost money on these guitars, I just could have been more patient and waited for an F-50R less in need of repairs, and Brazilian, etc... Yet at the time it seemed as if I would never be able to find a Brazilian F-50R for less then 4-5000$. ( Or at the least less than 3500$) The only one's I could find all seemed to need some kind of neck work, set up work, or major repairs even.

I could have simply bought this one here a year ago, but I missed it. I think this one went for too low of a price myself. Yet it sold all the same. https://reverb.com/item/28107838-1970-guild-f-50r
 

Westerly Wood

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The original F50 had arched maple, right? I think that’s the F50 I would be after. Not rosewood. I wound want the original. 😀
 

chazmo

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The original F50 had arched maple, right? I think that’s the F50 I would be after. Not rosewood. I wound want the original. 😀
Nothing wrong with that plan at all, Woody! Almost all F-50s are arched maple laminates with spruce soundboards. Best of breed, in my opinion, was the New Hartford F-50s that I played. No knock on earlier F-50s, but those are the ones I'd go for.
 

Br1ck

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I did a recording experiment in what for me was a dense track. I focused on just the rhythm strum track. You know, the part that is just there. By far the old Guild was the best. My Martin D 35 was mud. The Texan was pretty good if I stayed off the bass notes. This was bass, two guitars, mandolin, and dobro. The Martin kicked the 2nd guitar part single note stuff. It makes a huge difference when the foundation strum can both be heard and not step all over the other instruments. Then there is that taking it camping bonus.
 

JohnnyMo

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I found a shop in Portland OR that might be able to fix my Guilds for me. I was born in OR, so a good place for them to go to... I got one from PA, and one from MA, and one from Oklahoma... Go figure. It's about 3 hours from where I live so not swinging by tomorrow after work or anything like that. Will have to create a new post when they finally go into the shop. There's also a guy in Seattle who is pretty well respected. I have some equity in my house because Seattle is going crazy with house prices, might take awhile to pull some $$ out and get all my projects completed but I will come back one way or the other! Might even sell one of these F-50R's at some future date. Since this is a Collings thread here is my dream Collings guitar for sale right now on Reverb! Definitely won't be telling the Underwriters the proceeds of the loan are for an "investment grade Guitar!" Lol...
I bought a fiddle with my Student Loan proceeds and it was really a rare fiddle find. (Ever hear of Stuart Duncan? )It's a good one and I only paid 1200$ for it back in 2003. I have never looked for another fiddle again! Sometimes you just hit the right instrument and you stop looking. Still looking for bows though.

I like Guitars that I can play fiddle tunes on, so this one here uses Light Guage Strings. My D2H has to have Mediums according to Bill Collings. He told me a long time ago that if I can't play that Guitar with Mediums then I should sell it to someone who can! So it's always had Mediums on it... And I might sell it if I got this one here! Lol...

Great group of guitar guys here, Y'all take care! I gotta go away for awhile....


Collings0002.jpg
 

West R Lee

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It would be hard to beat that one. Also impossible to beat Collings guitars. On the string tension issue, I use lights on both my Collings CJ G and my Collings D2HA, and always have. I think you can run any string you like on them. They do come from the factory with medium D'Addarios, but I don't use those either. Good luck in your search, and hope to have you join us in the world of Collings one day.

West
 

JohnnyMo

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I called Bill (RIP Sir) on the phone and asked him about using lighter gauges and he said it was a bad idea! Don't want to put a guilt trip on anyone for using lighter gauge strings. I am going with what he said, and I will sell it to someone who will promise to use Medium Gauges or sell it to someone who can! I got it from Dusty Strings in Seattle brand new, nice guitar. D2H, standard D2H nothing fancy. He said the top is designed for Mediums and if I were to put lights on it then it would not vibrate correctly. Phone conversation, no written records.

Right now I am looking at selling or horse trading a whole bunch of stuff and getting one really, really good guitar, maybe even an old Martin not really sure yet. I'll be back, I am just trying to close this down for now. I tend to Ramble on forever so I have to stop myself! Some really good deals out there right now, and I am thinking that it's time to buy, not to sell. Trades might work here and there if the person you're trading with thinks your stuff might be a more profitable and quick sell than a high end item like the guitar above. Yet that seller is totally cash only, in person, old school. Lay the Cabbage on the table first, then you can try out the guitar! And at that point you're pretty much buying it anyways...

I can drive to Berkeley CA to look at something like that in a 3 day weekend, most people probably would have to fly out there. Then you have to ask yourself is it really worth it or would I rather remodel the garage? Or buy a nice used car? Looking at 10G's with taxes for that guitar.
(If you drive down in person though, you might be able to get it for cash, make an offer, etc on reverb less taxes, or split it with the seller, etc)

Guy wants to sell his guitar, but probably not give it away, and wants to find someone who can play the thing is my guess! I would not sell my fiddle to a beginner, would have to be someone I thought had some potential. Maybe back in North Carolina even as that's where it came from.

It's not always about the money you know, you can use light guage strings if you want, but I would sell those guitars to someone who can play with Mediums if you don't like that D2HA! Lol! Bill's words, not mine... The CJ, maybe that is okay with lights, not sure. Your'e not getting the proper tension is the deal. Now if it was sagging on the top, then I might use 12-53's like you said. But I have not seen many Collings with a sagging top, Adirondack might be a different deal than Spruce of course.

When I got my good fiddle Stuart had it set up with Orchestra Gauge Helicore's which are D'Addario's heaviest string. My local luthier also from NC he said we should back off to Medium Gauges, so that's all I put on that fiddle now. It's like 150 years old! So probably makes sense!

Another guy who recently passed Mike Lull of Bellevue WA, he told me to buy a newer guitar like a Collings not an old prewar Martin that needs a neck reset, etc.. Santa Cruz, etc... Heck maybe even a newer Guild! I have thought of that as well!

I don't have much time left to play I don't think. Maybe 10-15 years or so and my fingers and brain will slowly lose the abilities I once had. So I have to start thinking about the future, what is the best guitar for an older player?

And that's why I am starting to like the smaller and lighter gauge guitars, just looking to the future. And I don't want some 30,000$ guitar to be donated to the goodwill if I pass on early! (My mom has done stuff like that in the past, but my sister would probably sell it!)

Totally off topic but my mom, (bless her heart) gave away my wet suit and my Boy Scout Uniform, both of course which would never fit me again, and I remember being a bit upset about that! Lol... Then I realized that I could have never worn them ever again and some kid probably enjoyed snorkeling and being in the Boy Scouts as well. Just like I had before him, and it was probably 2nd Hand when I got it too!

I am thinking though that I might want to put some lights on my Guild F-50R with the sinking/sagging top. You're right about that. Never on the D2H though... No way I will sell it first! Mediums or Die! Take care, your mileage may vary... (YMMV)
 

Westerly Wood

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I called Bill (RIP Sir) on the phone and asked him about using lighter gauges and he said it was a bad idea! Don't want to put a guilt trip on anyone for using lighter gauge strings. I am going with what he said, and I will sell it to someone who will promise to use Medium Gauges or sell it to someone who can! I got it from Dusty Strings in Seattle brand new, nice guitar. D2H, standard D2H nothing fancy. He said the top is designed for Mediums and if I were to put lights on it then it would not vibrate correctly. Phone conversation, no written records.

Right now I am looking at selling or horse trading a whole bunch of stuff and getting one really, really good guitar, maybe even an old Martin not really sure yet. I'll be back, I am just trying to close this down for now. I tend to Ramble on forever so I have to stop myself! Some really good deals out there right now, and I am thinking that it's time to buy, not to sell. Trades might work here and there if the person you're trading with thinks your stuff might be a more profitable and quick sell than a high end item like the guitar above. Yet that seller is totally cash only, in person, old school. Lay the Cabbage on the table first, then you can try out the guitar! And at that point you're pretty much buying it anyways...

I can drive to Berkeley CA to look at something like that in a 3 day weekend, most people probably would have to fly out there. Then you have to ask yourself is it really worth it or would I rather remodel the garage? Or buy a nice used car? Looking at 10G's with taxes for that guitar.
(If you drive down in person though, you might be able to get it for cash, make an offer, etc on reverb less taxes, or split it with the seller, etc)

Guy wants to sell his guitar, but probably not give it away, and wants to find someone who can play the thing is my guess! I would not sell my fiddle to a beginner, would have to be someone I thought had some potential. Maybe back in North Carolina even as that's where it came from.

It's not always about the money you know, you can use light guage strings if you want, but I would sell those guitars to someone who can play with Mediums if you don't like that D2HA! Lol! Bill's words, not mine... The CJ, maybe that is okay with lights, not sure. Your'e not getting the proper tension is the deal. Now if it was sagging on the top, then I might use 12-53's like you said. But I have not seen many Collings with a sagging top, Adirondack might be a different deal than Spruce of course.

When I got my good fiddle Stuart had it set up with Orchestra Gauge Helicore's which are D'Addario's heaviest string. My local luthier also from NC he said we should back off to Medium Gauges, so that's all I put on that fiddle now. It's like 150 years old! So probably makes sense!

Another guy who recently passed Mike Lull of Bellevue WA, he told me to buy a newer guitar like a Collings not an old prewar Martin that needs a neck reset, etc.. Santa Cruz, etc... Heck maybe even a newer Guild! I have thought of that as well!

I don't have much time left to play I don't think. Maybe 10-15 years or so and my fingers and brain will slowly lose the abilities I once had. So I have to start thinking about the future, what is the best guitar for an older player?

And that's why I am starting to like the smaller and lighter gauge guitars, just looking to the future. And I don't want some 30,000$ guitar to be donated to the goodwill if I pass on early! (My mom has done stuff like that in the past, but my sister would probably sell it!)

Totally off topic but my mom, (bless her heart) gave away my wet suit and my Boy Scout Uniform, both of course which would never fit me again, and I remember being a bit upset about that! Lol... Then I realized that I could have never worn them ever again and some kid probably enjoyed snorkeling and being in the Boy Scouts as well. Just like I had before him, and it was probably 2nd Hand when I got it too!

I am thinking though that I might want to put some lights on my Guild F-50R with the sinking/sagging top. You're right about that. Never on the D2H though... No way I will sell it first! Mediums or Die! Take care, your mileage may vary... (YMMV)

Every time I go back to EJ16s, after a couple weeks I want to return to EJ17s. It’s quite a conundrum. But first world problems and all that, I can’t complain. I understand why Bill said what he did.
 

Br1ck

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My Martin D 35 sings with .013s, and proper setup is a must. Still, I'm playing it that way untill I can't. My last guitar move will be a 20s 0 or 00 Martin, if I can find and afford a player grade guitar. I hate when I see someone selling a great instrument because they can't physically play anymore. I'd rather drop dead first. As to mental capability, nothing stimulates brain activity like playing music.
 
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