Your help on identification: D25 or D35??

stephane7568 · Mar 7, 2021

Dear Guild forum members,

I just bought a guitar that was advertised as an "old Guild acoustic". When looking at the pictures of the ad, I assumed it was a D-25 (there was just one crappy/blurry picture of a red guitar).

So I went to his place and bought it. Serial number is inked, not stamped, and reads 132134 (or 13213X, the last 3 digits are barely visible). Which dates the guitar as a 1976 model, apparently .

Now the catch: the tuners are typical of a D-35 (one tuner was changed, see picture), there is no label inside but there is a tiny stamp on the neck block inside of the guitar which reads D-35, but the guitar is cherry red... I have not cleaned the guitar obviously yet and it is in the condition I bought it...

Now my question: is this a D-35 or a D-25?? I have never seen a cherry red D-35, whereas I have seen plenty of cherry red D-25. What are your views on the matter?

Many thanks and have a good week-end.

stormin1155 · Mar 7, 2021

stephane7568 · Mar 7, 2021

stormin1155 said:
35

Thanks Stormin. No bullshit there, quick and sharp answer!!

SFIV1967 · Mar 7, 2021

The rosette on a 1976 D-25 was almost invisible as the lacquer was not removed from the rosette:

But I also can't remember a Cherry colored D-35. Interesting!

Ralf

Br1ck · Mar 7, 2021

That guitar needs some TLC. Get the cracks looked at and glued. The tuner would bug me, but maybe that's part of it's charm. I lovingly consider my D 35 my beater. Your guitar would be a hobbyist fixer's dream. Really worth someone's time.

jfilm · Mar 7, 2021

Stamp says it all - D35. By 1976 I believe the D25 had the arched back (correct me if I'm wrong someone).

walrus · Mar 7, 2021

In the photo of the D-35 stamp, is that a small glimpse of natural wood in the upper right, between the rosette and the fretboard?

I'm thinking this D-35 has been refinished?

walrus

SFIV1967 · Mar 7, 2021

walrus said:
...is that a small glimpse of natural wood in the upper right, between the rosette and the fretboard? I'm thinking this D-35 has been refinished?

I think you are right! You also see a few drops of lacquer inside. It was a very clean refinish as it looks and I think the cracks happened after the refinish, so it might be a very old refinish. So yes, it looks like it was a natural top one. The 1976 catalog also only shows natural top or sunburst for the D-35.

That would also explain why the wood under the pickguard is so light. No cherry under the pickguard.

Ralf

stephane7568 · Mar 7, 2021

Thanks for all your replies and support.

I cleaned the frets, the fretboard and put new strings on. I will see with my tech if the cracks need to be fixed.

The guitar sounds very good and is a bit more powerful than my two Gibson J-40 from the early 70's. I will play it alongside my other acoustics that are in the studio (a 1971 Hummingbird and a newish Martin HD-16 Adirondack). I already know that the Guild D-35 sound will complement the various sounds I get from the other acoustics we use.

I just read the comments about the possibility of the guitar being refinished and checked with a blacklight: the guitar glows evenly green and does not appear to have been refinished at all. On the other hand, I had never seen a red D-35... Having said that, I had never seen any D-35 with these tuners in gold either. Some mid 70's D-35 have got the same tuners, but they are chrome colored. So who knows...

Neal · Mar 7, 2021

Why would the serial number not be stamped on the back of the headstock?

GAD · Mar 7, 2021

Neal said:
Why would the serial number not be stamped on the back of the headstock?

It is. I'm thinking a refin filled it in:

stephane7568 · Mar 8, 2021

Hi guys,

Refin or not, that is the question

Here are some clues that tend to show it's a refinished guitar:
- No one has ever seen a cherry red D-35
- The serial number is inked, not stamped
- As Walrus mentioned: " a small glimpse of natural wood in the upper right, between the rosette and the fretboard". This is not so obvious to me when I look at the guitar.

Now the clues, in my views, that show it's an original finish:
- The guitar glows green with a black light. It glows the exact same way as my other guitars that are old and original.
- The rosette inlays and front binding look very legit.
- It doesn't feel refinished.

As per my "It doesn't feel refinished" comment, I have handled hundreds of vintage instruments and I must admit that I have sometimes been fooled by very old professionally done refins, but these don't occur that often.

Anyway, I'll put more pictures taken with various light angles and I'll let you comment/advise. Thanks again to all of you.

SFIV1967 · Mar 8, 2021

I hope Hans has that serial number in his database, he would be able to tell about all those things.
Ralf

stephane7568 · Mar 8, 2021

SFIV1967 said:
I hope Hans has that serial number in his database, he would be able to tell about all those things.
Ralf

Thanks Ralf. How can I get in touch with Hans?

geoguy · Mar 8, 2021

He prefers folks to contact him via his website, because he receives too many PMs from this forum:

Hans' website

The Guilds of Grot · Mar 8, 2021

@hansmoust

fronobulax · Mar 8, 2021

I am no expert on blacklight and guitar finishes. But in my ignorance I think two things are true. First different finishes (NCL, poly, etc.) respond differently to blacklight. Second, similar types of finish but of different ages will respond differently.

So, applying logic to my ignorance, I don't understand how a black light can be used to distinguish between a 50 year old original NCL finish and a 49 year old NCL refinish.

With respect to differing opinions, I wonder in general, how someone can tell the difference between an original finish and a factory (not amateur) refinish of similar age just by inspecting the guitar? (Because I have an answer if catalogs and other guitars are included in the determination).

We have seen credible (as well as incredible) stories of things done at the factory as "repairs". These include refinishes and replacement parts that don't necessarily match the factory spec of the original instrument. So I wonder if the most plausible story about this instrument includes a visit to the factory for some kind of work within a year or two of when it was first completed?

geoguy · Mar 8, 2021

My understanding is that a blacklight can be especially useful in identifying recent finish repairs that will glow differently than the original finish.

If a guitar was fully refinished a long time ago, I would expect it to glow the same color all over.

Br1ck · Mar 8, 2021

I'm thinking that as long as there was cherry stain in the Guild building, it could have been used. Were they accommodating dealer requests for that sort of thing?

stephane7568 · Mar 10, 2021

geoguy said:
If a guitar was fully refinished a long time ago, I would expect it to glow the same color all over.

Absolutely. This is why I am a bit confused about my D-35. I do not exclude the possibility of my guitar being refinished, but if it's the case, this has been done a very loooooong time ago and it was done in a very professional manner.

Your help on identification: D25 or D35??

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