JF65-12 vs F-512 maple

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Hi everyone
I have been searching for a long while if a thread like this was already open, but I could not find one. So please, if there is one, redirect my post there. Thank you.

I merely want to know if there is any difference between my 90's JF65-12 (RI made) and the "new" F-512 maple version. I know that old F-412, with arched maple back, changed the name to JF65-12. But what about the F-512 maple? I cannot see any difference...
Thanks in advance
Kenneth
 

Brucebubs

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According to my notes the Guild F-412 was re-named the JF-65M-12 in 1987 during the Westerly period and changed back to F-412 in 2002 in the Fender Corona period.
Cordoba Guild have decided to now call it the F-512M.
I wish they'd just stuck with F-412.
 

GGJaguar

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The differences are the new version has a single truss rod with carbon reinforcing rods in the neck. This makes for a slimmer neck profile. Also, the bracing is lighter on the new version making it a little more lively. Finally, the new version has open back tuners which save some weight. I had a Corona-built F-412 and it was 1.1 lbs (0.5 kg) heavier than the new version that I now have. Both are really great guitars. If I never had a chance to play the new version, I'd still be happy with my Corona F-412.
 
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Hi GGJaguar many thanks for your response.
Regarding the first point, then I'm happy to have a JF65-12 because I love the thick neck and guess that two truss rods make an stronger neck than one. The lighter bracing must be amazing because I cannot imagine a 12 string louder than mine!! haha...
Yes, the JF65-12 has closed grover tuners. I like better the open ones and would like to replace, but I'm afraid it could not be possible without making new holes, so I better leave it as is.

So in conclusion I guess that there are no differences in the main point, the woods: solid sitka spruce top with laminated maple arched back (I don't know if sides are solid or laminate maple).
 

beecee

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So in conclusion I guess that there are no differences in the main point, the woods: solid sitka spruce top with laminated maple arched back (I don't know if sides are solid or laminate maple).

I was shocked to find out that the sides are laminated as well on the F-412...well shocked my not be the word...certainly not disappointed as it's a lovely guitar.

Mine is from NH and has a slightly slimmer neck than my JF-30-12...which I would imagine was pretty similar to your JF.

My 412 is a great guitar...my JF-30-12....leaves nothing to be desired
 

blakeb2193

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If you buy a JF65-12 built from 1994-2001 you will get two things I really like. The major bonus here is getting the 3 piece, flame maple neck, that will match the body's flame maple. They are currently using Mahogany 3-piece necks that contrast the maple back and sides. The other is the abalone soundhole rosette. The thickness of the abalone ring is a bit thicker than the newer models, which helps it show better in pictures from afar. I think the Antique Burst guild used in the 90s may be the best in the company's history. I add a couple of JF65 neck pics for a highly figured maple neck example.
 

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adorshki

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Hi GGJaguar many thanks for your response.
Regarding the first point, then I'm happy to have a JF65-12 because I love the thick neck and guess that two truss rods make an stronger neck than one. The lighter bracing must be amazing because I cannot imagine a 12 string louder than mine!! haha...
HI Kenneth, welcome aboard!

I'm a little late to the party, but wanted to point out that the true purpose of the dual truss rods was to compensate for the large difference in string tension between the bass and treble sides of the neck, which in turn affect fretboard alignment and thus intonation. They allowed fine adjustment on each side of the neck: a little tighter for bass, a little slacker for treble. We've even seen cases where mis-adjustment of the rods by folks who didn't realize that concept fractured the neck.

So in conclusion I guess that there are no differences in the main point, the woods: solid sitka spruce top with laminated maple arched back (I don't know if sides are solid or laminate maple).
Yeah the basic formula is the same. Sure they did help make a stronger neck that resisted the twisting force caused by the unequal string tension, and the 3-piece necks also help in that regard.
The differences are subtle but according to Guild's website the current F512M has adirondack spruce bracing, which wasn't used in Westerly as far as we know (first "officially" spec'd by Guild in Tacoma). Adi is stronger than sitka by weight, so it allows lighter bracing to be used for the tops, letting 'em resonate more. Explains why they could be as loud if not louder than a late Westerly build.

Still, late Westerly guitars have a reputation for excellence and I'm sure if you put yours up against a new one in a blind listening test, the judges'd be split 50/50.

:)

According to my notes the Guild F-412 was re-named the JF-65M-12 in 1987 during the Westerly period and changed back to F-412 in 2002 in the Fender Corona period./QUOTE]
Cordoba Guild have decided to now call it the F-512M.
I wish they'd just stuck with F-412.
HI Bruce, that "JF65M-12" designation didn't last long, in fact I think it may be one of those model number anomalies that were common in that period when Gruhn implemented his new model number system. It only shows for that year in the s/n lists, by way of cross-checking. In any case, by '90 it was just the JF65-12.
;)
 

SFIV1967

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that "JF65M-12" designation didn't last long, in fact I think it may be one of those model number anomalies that were common in that period when Gruhn implemented his new model number system. It only shows for that year in the s/n lists, by way of cross-checking.
It's an interesting question. Yes, in Gruhn's Guide he only shows a JF-65M-12 for 1987 and also shows that it was renamed into JF65-12 in 1987 as well. But he shows the JF-65M-12 as a simple renaming of the previous F-412 whereas for the JF65-12 he shows complete specs! And Gruhn shows solid maple sides! Also he shows a 3 piece maple neck with with walnut center strip for the older F-412 and the renamed JF-65M-12 but only a "Maple neck" for the JF65-12...But Gruhn has also huge errors in his book, for instance he shows "mahogany back and sides" on page 422 for the older F-412 !!! o_O

The November 1986 price list still shows the F-412:

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The January 1987 pricelist shows the new name and no mention of solid sides:

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By June 1987 the "M" was gone, that description without any mention of solid lasted till 1993.

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Starting with the January 1994 pricelist and also in 1996 and year 2000 catalogs they show solid sides again.

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But we also know that pricelists and catalogs had many errors.

Ralf
 
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