Pickups like the old Guild HB-1?

mad dog

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Hey all:

This talk of '70s S-100s has me curious. What non-Guild humbuckers are close to the '70s Guild HB-1s? If I could find anything in the ballpark, I'd try them out in my Dearmond S-73. Which sounds really good with the Goldtone p/us, but of course curiosity trumps reason.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
MD
 

Sylvester Zarzana

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Hey all:

This talk of '70s S-100s has me curious. What non-Guild humbuckers are close to the '70s Guild HB-1s? If I could find anything in the ballpark, I'd try them out in my Dearmond S-73. Which sounds really good with the Goldtone p/us, but of course curiosity trumps reason.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
MD
I have the same question. I have been looking into custom wound or specialty pick ups that attempt to recreate the vintage Humbucker tones. (Most available information is for Gibson PAF’s. That said, I learned that magnets play a big role in varying tone, such as the PAF 57 and 59 are basically identical with the exception of an Alnico 2 and Alnico 5, respectively. And, the clean tones between the two are perceptibly different.). Back to the point. If you find a vintage toned humbucker and change out magnets, you may be able to get close to the sound you seek. For example, maybe a Seth Lover with Alnico 4 swap might be an interesting tone, theoretically. Take my advice with a grain of salt, as I am new to the world of tones and pick ups😀
 

GAD

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I'd say PAFs are probably the closest, though not all PAFs are created equal. Any low-wind PAF-type will get you in the ballpark since you'll likely get that chime the HB1s are known for.
 

Quantum Strummer

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A low-wind set of Maxon Dry pickups (aka Super 58s when used in Ibanez guitars) will put you in the right ballpark too. Same goes for the slightly later FujiGen Gakki Dry 82s found in Greco guitars from '82–86 (or so). FujiGen bought Maxon's pickup division in the spring of '82 but kept making some of the Maxon designs for a few years afterward.

-Dave-
 

SFIV1967

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Evan Skopp from Seymour Duncan once said about the SD-1 (the second half 1990ies HB-1 copy): "What we wound under the covers to capture as much of the original sound as possible, was very close to our SH-1 '59 Model."

Ralf
 

GAD

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Evan Skopp from Seymour Duncan once said about the SD-1 (the second half 1990ies HB-1 copy): "What we wound under the covers to capture as much of the original sound as possible, was very close to our SH-1 '59 Model."

Ralf


I like SH1s a lot but I find them to be a fair bit darker and more modern sounding than vintage HB1s.
 

Zelja

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My favourite humbuckers apart from HB-1s from non-custom winders are the TV Jones Classic Plus & Powertron - both souped up versions of the Filtertron & available in standard humbucker size.

In my '81 Ibanez AS200 (think Starfire/ES335) I replaced the bridge Super 70 with the Classic Plus & it matches beautifully with the Super 70 in the neck. I had issues with the original pickup & others I tried with matching the volume of the neck pickup but the Classic Plus works great.

I also have a Powertron in the bridge position of an Orville (basically Gibson Japan) LP. I thought it was too much for the AS200 but works great in the solid body guitar.

Like HB-1s, both have a wonderful clean sound - air, jangle & a 3D quality lacking in most other standard humbuckers for me. The Powertron has more mids, more girth than the Classic Plus.
 

Quantum Strummer

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In my '81 Ibanez AS200 (think Starfire/ES335) I replaced the bridge Super 70 with the Classic Plus & it matches beautifully with the Super 70 in the neck. I had issues with the original pickup & others I tried with matching the volume of the neck pickup but the Classic Plus works great.

In my experience this is typical of the U1000/Super 70s and Ibanez & Greco guitars. I think they were going for maximum tonal differentiation between the neck & bridge pickups, output level be danged. I have a '74 Greco LP copy where the neck Super 70 measured ~8.6K while the bridge was ~7.4K. So I swapped 'em! ☺

The TV Jones Classic/Classic Plus set is the way to go IMO if you like the Filter'Tron sound with just a little more oomph.

-Dave-
 

dalko

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If your AS200 is from 1981, your pickup must be a Maxon Super 58 ...

I saw some Ibanez AS200 with Super 70, but it was in 1979.

1981 must have Super58.
 

dalko

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In my experience this is typical of the U1000/Super 70s and Ibanez & Greco guitars. I think they were going for maximum tonal differentiation between the neck & bridge pickups, output level be danged. I have a '74 Greco LP copy where the neck Super 70 measured ~8.6K while the bridge was ~7.4K. So I swapped 'em! ☺

The TV Jones Classic/Classic Plus set is the way to go IMO if you like the Filter'Tron sound with just a little more oomph.

-Dave-

As far as i know, Super 70 has evolved over time. Until it was branded "Super 70" we had a Maxon Alnico 8 pickup, maybe common to Ibanez and Greco ... But, after, when we saw a branded Ibanez "Super 70" and U-1000, there is no evidence that it is the same pickup.

Only for Ibanez Maxon made A LOT of differents pickups, it's hard to beleive he was not able to do some original pickup for Greco. U-1000 U-2000 etc, should have something different from Ibanez Super 70 ...

In addition, Super 70 itself has evolved from year to year. From 1975 to 1976, some differences ... 1977, wax potting starded, differences in the sound again... in 1979 some Super 70 will have with ceramic magnets, and some other ones will stay Alnico 8 magnets ... At that point, U-1000 has almost nothing to do with Super 70 ...

I have more than 10 vintage Grecos, with all kind of pickups, and none sound like Ibanez Super 70.

The confusion probably comes from the time when Greco was not yet popular outside of Japan, and the owners of Grecos wanted to take advantage of the fact that Ibanez Super 70 was better known.

Now, with the internet, Grecos is sufficiently popular and no longer needs to compare itself to Ibanez to be known ...
 

kakerlak

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Hey @dalko Show us your Grecos! (Also, what's the guitar in your profile pic?

I picked up a 1980-ish Argus Live Road Model LP-alike a few months back that's marvelous. Love that era of MIJ stuff
 

Zelja

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If your AS200 is from 1981, your pickup must be a Maxon Super 58 ...

I saw some Ibanez AS200 with Super 70, but it was in 1979.

1981 must have Super58.
Sorry, I misspoke. The AS200 is from February 1980. Checked the original pickup I have - it is a Super 70. My AR300 is a 1981.
 

Zelja

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In my experience this is typical of the U1000/Super 70s and Ibanez & Greco guitars. I think they were going for maximum tonal differentiation between the neck & bridge pickups, output level be danged. I have a '74 Greco LP copy where the neck Super 70 measured ~8.6K while the bridge was ~7.4K. So I swapped 'em! ☺
I can't remember if I checked the DC resistances/inductance of the pickups at the time. Just checked the bridge & it read 7.9k, the neck seems just a tad more (almost 8.1k in the guitar, so probably a smidge more out of it). I am so happy with the current arrangement though so maybe not much point in doing the experiment of taking out the Classic Plus & swapping bridge/neck.
 

dalko

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Sorry, I misspoke. The AS200 is from February 1980. Checked the original pickup I have - it is a Super 70. My AR300 is a 1981.

I understand better now :) Early AS200 have Super 70. 1979, and the beginning of 1980 ... Your's must be one of the early AS200 1980. Your Super 70 should have a letter stamped? No? Maybe "A" for Alnico? We even saw some "Z" with Super 70 ...

Iz B. L. si? Znadoh jednog Zelju odatle koji je volio The Beatles ...
 

Zelja

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I understand better now :) Early AS200 have Super 70. 1979, and the beginning of 1980 ... Your's must be one of the early AS200 1980. Your Super 70 should have a letter stamped? No? Maybe "A" for Alnico? We even saw some "Z" with Super 70 ...
Yes early 1980, February, The pickup has an "A" stamped on it, plus a number 200118.
Iz B. L. si? Znadoh jednog Zelju odatle koji je volio The Beatles ...
B.L. = Banja Luka? Ne. Rodjen u Slavonji, dosao u Australiju sa 4 i pol godine. To je davno bilo.;) Di si ti?
 

dalko

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Hey @dalko Show us your Grecos! (Also, what's the guitar in your profile pic?

I picked up a 1980-ish Argus Live Road Model LP-alike a few months back that's marvelous. Love that era of MIJ stuff

The guitar in my profil pic is my Ibanez Artist 2676 guitar. Preserial. But the pickups are from 1976, and they are originals.

jDrlP.jpg


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bDmLd.jpg


Wo80V.jpg


DxjDZ.jpg


gDNge.jpg


For Greco guitars,, i don't have much pictures, but i have almost everything interesting from the Era ... including this Greco Super Real EGF-1800 from 1980.

kDKEL.jpg
 

dalko

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Yes early 1980, February, The pickup has an "A" stamped on it, plus a number 200118.

B.L. = Banja Luka? Ne. Rodjen u Slavonji, dosao u Australiju sa 4 i pol godine. To je davno bilo.;) Di si ti?

Aaaa, OK. Jer ono mi je bio rodjak, pa sam pomislio ... Ma ja sam u Parizu sad, inace su moji svi iz Dalmacije. :)
 

dbirchett

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My favourite humbuckers apart from HB-1s from non-custom winders are the TV Jones Classic Plus & Powertron - both souped up versions of the Filtertron & available in standard humbucker size.

In my '81 Ibanez AS200 (think Starfire/ES335) I replaced the bridge Super 70 with the Classic Plus & it matches beautifully with the Super 70 in the neck. I had issues with the original pickup & others I tried with matching the volume of the neck pickup but the Classic Plus works great.

I also have a Powertron in the bridge position of an Orville (basically Gibson Japan) LP. I thought it was too much for the AS200 but works great in the solid body guitar.

Like HB-1s, both have a wonderful clean sound - air, jangle & a 3D quality lacking in most other standard humbuckers for me. The Powertron has more mids, more girth than the Classic Plus.
DSC_1046[1].jpg


My Starfire V (2001) came with the Fender HB1 labeled pickups that are OK but nothing special. I replaced them with Powertrons in HB form. I can do nothing but echo your comments. But when I played it through my Gretsch Executive by Victoria amp, they just came alive. The qualities you mention, "air, jangle & a 3D quality" are right there!



DSC_1046[1].jpg
 

Zelja

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DSC_1046[1].jpg


My Starfire V (2001) came with the Fender HB1 labeled pickups that are OK but nothing special. I replaced them with Powertrons in HB form. I can do nothing but echo your comments. But when I played it through my Gretsch Executive by Victoria amp, they just came alive. The qualities you mention, "air, jangle & a 3D quality" are right there!



DSC_1046[1].jpg
Super cool looking amp & I bet she sounds great too.

Yeah, love the TV Jones humbuckers. I also have a pair of TV Jones Supertrons which I need to find a guitar for. I guess they would be somewhere in between the Classic & The Classic Plus in terms of tone. I have got a Hamer Newport with the standard SD Phat Cats, may be a contender but it sounds pretty good as is.
 

Quantum Strummer

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As far as i know, Super 70 has evolved over time. Until it was branded "Super 70" we had a Maxon Alnico 8 pickup, maybe common to Ibanez and Greco ... But, after, when we saw a branded Ibanez "Super 70" and U-1000, there is no evidence that it is the same pickup.
I use the term "Super 70" loosely to refer to the pickups in any Ibanez guitar with U-1000s (no model stamp) or the later stamped "Super 70s." Like with PAFs this refers to a general sonic range rather than a bunch of pickups that all sound precisely the same. The alnico 8 magnet pickups have a common character to them, in my experience anyway. The later ceramic magnet Super 70s are a different thing. The "Dry" pickups in certain Greco models from ~'79–81 and the lower-wind Super 58s in Ibanez guitars during roughly the same period have a similar character too: impressively PAF-y.

Referring to the pickups in my Greco I should've typed U-1000 rather than Super 70, though. I had an Ibanez with Z stamped pickups, probably U-2000s, but I've never owned or even seen a Greco with Super 70s.

-Dave-
 
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