You have to fight them?

The below comment does not apply to Guilds

I have heard of people liking to fight guitars to play them. A friend of mine who does setups for some touring bands etc showed me a Fender Jazzmaster he was working on that had what I thought was ridiculously high action. His response to my commentary was ‘yeah he likes to fight them’.

Not to my taste but there you go.

All my guitars suck, that's why I always need another one ;]

The social media guy may have been an electric guitar player that played Gibson scale guitars with .008" strings. Any acoustic would seem to be a fight if they were strung with standard lights (.012"), along with the somewhat higher action that acoustic guitars have. However, that would be true of any other acoustic guitar brand in that case, assuming that the acoustics were all set up pretty much the same standard way (6/64" low E, 5/64" high E).

No two guitars play the same, not exactly.

I'm blessed with guitars that don't play the same from the time you set it down at bedtime, the house gets cold - wood heat, fire goes out - and you grab it first thing in the morning, and constantly changing humidity levels mean constantly changing action.

Water swells wood, making the neck longer, tightening the truss rod by pushing against the nut, the TR has to be loosened to get the proper relief - .010" - , which ain't much, back under the strings.

One guitar I've liked and payed the most over the years, 1974 Strat, needs so many adjustments I should call it Sybil.

Because of this horrible thing that happened on Reverb with my other Strat - now thinking back actually absolute top dog over any other electric in the house, time after time - I decided to pull the ads on all my other Strats, including the 1974, and pretty much deciding I will sell them body and neck separate only or in even smaller parts, I just don't need the grief from young people, there's not a lot going on upstairs with some of these, the addlement from years of computer use and social media taking its toll, seriously.

Is there a way to sell to the age group you want only? 40 on up please, 50 on up?

So long story short, I pull the '74 out of the case, look at the neck/frets, I gotta take pictures of this from now on, the way you look at frets like railroad ties, you have to document everything. It looks marvelous, as it should be.

And I see the neck angle is a teensy bit too shallow, and I don't have enough relief, and I go for the Allen wrenches. There are three, one for the bullet TR nut, one for the micro tilt, and one for the bridge saddles, which ideally should have no sharp screws sticking out the top of the saddle. If you're lucky enough to have the owner's manual, they tell you how to do all this in the first 2 pages, and they supplied the tools of course.

So I adjust the neck, then loosen the TR, and then the guitar plays so good, and sounds so good I seriously should be flogged for putting it on Reverb.

Today, it might need a different tweak.

Such is life.

The more people put down Guild guitars the better for keeping their value down, and, for those of us wanting to buy them that is good, although not too good if you're on the seller end.

I went and rewatched the YouTube video, and he actually said wrestle, not fight, and was referring to the neck shape mostly I think. I’m not going to say who it was, but he has owned a fair amount of Guilds and LOVES them, so I’m just putting up this clarification because my misquote and lack of context has possibly ruffled some feathers.

GuildyAsHell said:

I went and rewatched the YouTube video, and he actually said wrestle, not fight, and was referring to the neck shape mostly I think. I’m not going to say who it was, but he has owned a fair amount of Guilds and LOVES them, so I’m just putting up this clarification because my misquote and lack of context has possibly ruffled some feathers.

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Feathers remain as smooth as ever but again I ask, what information was conveyed by saying a guitar has to be wrestled with and why is that a property of the brand and not the player's preferences, anatomy or technique?

I do have to fight the urge to buy another Guild...

madhat.

I read something similar recently, in a 2011 review of a New Hartford D-50:

If the D-50 has any drawbacks, it’s the horsepower it takes to really get this guitar vibrating in fingerstyle situations. Thumbpick users will likely be able to generate enough attack, but fingerstylists who rely on a thumbnail or bare flesh may find the D-50’s sweet spots a little less accessible.

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I was reading the D-50 review in anticipation of getting my own, a 1977 model. Since receiving my D-50, I can see that my fingerpicking may not "get this guitar vibrating" as a smaller guitar would vibrate. However, the guitar still sounds full and clear, and it does not fight my playing in any way.

IMO It's a nonsensical statement in a general sense. If you have to "fight" something to play it, then the only point one could be making is that that individual person does not like something about the neck shape/feel/setup/etc ... and multiple people saying the same thing agree.

Considering there is not one "Guild" neck shape/feel/setup/etc in the first place, it means nothing IMO. Someone making that kind of general statement (particularly if it's someone in a position of influence) is not actually experienced in Guilds, I would say.

Maybe slightly off topic: What do people mean when they say certain Guilds of a certain era are “overbuilt?”

I think all this criticism by random reviewers is "overblown"...

walrus

lawaters said:

Maybe slightly off topic: What do people mean when they say certain Guilds of a certain era are “overbuilt?”

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It means they don't know what they are talking about but want to impress you anyway.

Seriously, there was a period, early 70's, when Guilds were heavier than comparable instruments in other decades. It could be argued that they were heavier than they needed to be. My recollection about the speculation as to why is that Guild wasn't quite sure how to build a lighter instrument and retain durability. So they went heavier in hopes of reducing mechanical failures and warranty claims.

fronobulax said:

It means they don't know what they are talking about but want to impress you anyway.

Seriously, there was a period, early 70's, when Guilds were heavier than comparable instruments in other decades. It could be argued that they were heavier than they needed to be. My recollection about the speculation as to why is that Guild wasn't quite sure how to build a lighter instrument and retain durability. So they went heavier in hopes of reducing mechanical failures and warranty claims.

Click to expand...

Yeah..my D-50 is a tank, but sounds so full without muddling any notes. It sounds so tender and clear even when strummed aggressively. I handed it to my brother-in-law who was like...ugh...then played it and could not believe it. He's still looking for an acoustic that sounds as good. I had a Martin HD28, which sounded really good...did not sound NEARLY as good as my D50, nor did it play as easily. Do I have to fight it? Nope. Just have to hold it.

mushroom said:

The below comment does not apply to Guilds

I have heard of people liking to fight guitars to play them. A friend of mine who does setups for some touring bands etc showed me a Fender Jazzmaster he was working on that had what I thought was ridiculously high action. His response to my commentary was ‘yeah he likes to fight them’.

Not to my taste but there you go.

Click to expand...

Isn't that a J. Mascis line? And (correct me if I'm wrong) didn't he give in to that idea?

lawaters said:

Maybe slightly off topic: What do people mean when they say certain Guilds of a certain era are “overbuilt?”

Click to expand...

During the great acoustic boom of the late 60s and 70s, many guitars were sold to people with no knowledge of how to care for them. Warranty claims were piling up due not to defective builds, but simple falling apart in a 110 degree trunk. All the negatives we hear now about the large bridge plates on Martins were done in self defense. Guild was forced to build stronger too, and there is a marked difference from a 70 Guild to a 78 Guild. They sound different. Different is neither better or worse. It depends on one's own subjectivity. Repairs like neck resets may certainly be influenced by how strong the guitar was built in the first place. Compound this with differences in guitars from the same era, and really all you can do is generalize. Plenty of people are happy with the D 25 they bought new in 79 and doesn't need major work. Gibson went to a bracing pattern now considered a major tone suck.

These days, people realize the trade off, know better how to care for instruments. and make buying decisions accordingly. Generally you trade resonance for a forceful punch.

fronobulax said:

It means they don't know what they are talking about but want to impress you anyway.

Seriously, there was a period, early 70's, when Guilds were heavier than comparable instruments in other decades. It could be argued that they were heavier than they needed to be. My recollection about the speculation as to why is that Guild wasn't quite sure how to build a lighter instrument and retain durability. So they went heavier in hopes of reducing mechanical failures and warranty claims.

Click to expand...

Br1ck said:

During the great acoustic boom of the late 60s and 70s, many guitars were sold to people with no knowledge of how to care for them. Warranty claims were piling up due not to defective builds, but simple falling apart in a 110 degree trunk. All the negatives we hear now about the large bridge plates on Martins were done in self defense. Guild was forced to build stronger too, and there is a marked difference from a 70 Guild to a 78 Guild. They sound different. Different is neither better or worse. It depends on one's own subjectivity. Repairs like neck resets may certainly be influenced by how strong the guitar was built in the first place. Compound this with differences in guitars from the same era, and really all you can do is generalize. Plenty of people are happy with the D 25 they bought new in 79 and doesn't need major work. Gibson went to a bracing pattern now considered a major tone suck.

These days, people realize the trade off, know better how to care for instruments. and make buying decisions accordingly. Generally you trade resonance for a forceful punch.

Click to expand...

Makes sense about the warranty claims. It did sound like one of those meaningless things people say to sound like an expert. I love the history I learn here on LTG.

The only guitar I’ve played that felt like fighting was an Ovation I tried out about 30 years ago. That rounded back made it slip around. I found it impossible to play seated or standing! I was thinking of buying it but the sound was so thin compared to my Guild D50.

Hey, lawaters, you are not alone in that assessment of the Ovations. Really, the only way to get comfortable with one is to use a strap all the time.

Having said that, if you ever get a chance to play an Adamas, don't pass it up. Regardless of the ergonomics, they are spectacular and worth the "challenge."

chazmo said:

Hey, lawaters, you are not alone in that assessment of the Ovations. Really, the only way to get comfortable with one is to use a strap all the time.

Having said that, if you ever get a chance to play an Adamas, don't pass it up. Regardless of the ergonomics, they are spectacular and worth the "challenge."

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Even with the strap, it slipped! Messed up my already borderline playing.

I have a Larrivee that kind of fights me to play. I think it's the neck profile, but whatever it is, it takes a lot of effort on the fret hand. I actually popped a tendon in my wrist doing a barre F#m on that guitar, and it took a year to heal enough where I can play that chord again.

When my Guild was new to me, I was chronically missing notes when flatpicking because of the curvier neck radius compared to a Taylor. But eventually I adapted, and now it plays "like buttah."