Advice on picking a Grand Orchestra

Aecon13 · Jan 21, 2022

I have been searching for a big sounding guitar for some time now that can handle heavy strumming/rythem work, but at 5'7, I find Dreds and Jumbos too uncomfortable to play. So a 16" lower bout, Grand Orchestra seems like a good fit. I've been searching for F47 for a while, but have not had much luck finding one of my price range.

Im currently looking at an 06 F-40 Valencia and an 87 F45sc. I wanted to see if anyone had advice or would suggest one over the other based on my explained playing style, and/or their own personal experiences with either instrument. Both listing below! Thanks in advance!

Guild F-45CE Crossroads | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

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GUILD F-40 2006 NATURAL | Reverb

Made in Tacoma in 2006 It's a player The five first frets are new. Frets and fretboard have been planed Action is low and the guitare is easy to play. Seymour Duncan D-tar systemFlightcase is very used but does the job.Video has been made in selfie mode : the guitar is NOT a lefty.

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GGJaguar · Jan 21, 2022

I have an F-40 and it is an excellent choice for your playing style. The red spruce top handles heavy strumming well. It is not a small guitar and is almost as large as a dreadnaught, but still comfortable to play. Good luck with your search!

davismanLV · Jan 21, 2022

F-40 is a much newer guitar and has photos showing the saddle height as well and the action at the 12th fret. Which is really good. It's also a mahogany guitar with an Adirondack top. The D-tar electronics are generally admired. There's also another F-40 from 2007 on Reverb for a similar price, not sure if it has electronics. The F45ce is a Sitka spruce topped, maple guitar with a laminated, arched maple back with no back bracing which is good for focus and projection. It's also a short scale and has 15 frets clear of the body with 24 frets in total. The maple is a bit crisper than mahogany in sound, however the different types of spruce are more of a variable than the side and back wood. Electronics in the F45ce are far older and depending on if you electrify may need to be updated. Also, this guitar has a 1 5/8" width at the nut, closer to an electric, which is fairly narrow on an acoustic. Depending on the size of your hands, it may be okay for you, but the F40 has a full 1 3/4" nut width which is fairly wide.

Two fairly different guitars. Shame you can't pick them up and play them first. If it was me, the nut width would determine the purchase. But I have big hands. More folks will be along with more information soon. I have played neither of these models. Good luck with your purchase!

walrus · Jan 21, 2022

I have no experience with that size guitar, but also moved to a smaller sized body for "comfort" reasons.

Just a thought, don't discount an F-30, which I found to be perfect for me.

Good luck!

walrus

Guildedagain · Jan 21, 2022

F30/GF30 guitars get a lot of love on this forum. Light, easy to handle, even at idle, it's as much or more volume than I need and it barks loud when you dig in. Is a bigger box a bigger tone generator or just a place for some of the sound to get absorbed in internally, as you're trying to vibrate more wood for more output, the extra volume no doubt comes at some price?

Aecon13 · Jan 21, 2022

davismanLV said:
F-40 is a much newer guitar and has photos showing the saddle height as well and the action at the 12th fret. Which is really good. It's also a mahogany guitar with an Adirondack top. The D-tar electronics are generally admired. There's also another F-40 from 2007 on Reverb for a similar price, not sure if it has electronics. The F45ce is a Sitka spruce topped, maple guitar with a laminated, arched maple back with no back bracing which is good for focus and projection. It's also a short scale and has 15 frets clear of the body with 24 frets in total. The maple is a bit crisper than mahogany in sound, however the different types of spruce are more of a variable than the side and back wood. Electronics in the F45ce are far older and depending on if you electrify may need to be updated. Also, this guitar has a 1 5/8" width at the nut, closer to an electric, which is fairly narrow on an acoustic. Depending on the size of your hands, it may be okay for you, but the F40 has a full 1 3/4" nut width which is fairly wide.

Two fairly different guitars. Shame you can't pick them up and play them first. If it was me, the nut width would determine the purchase. But I have big hands. More folks will be along with more information soon. I have played neither of these models. Good luck with your purchase!

The 06 catelog shows 1.69 nut for the F40. Is there reason to think that's wrong, and it's 1.75 instead?

plaidseason · Jan 21, 2022

Aecon13 said:
The 06 catelog shows 1.69 nut for the F40. Is there reason to think that's wrong, and it's 1.75 instead?

I think that's correct for that year.

Those both have potential to be amazing guitars. Similar as they are in size, I'd expect them to be quite different sonically. Arched back vs solid back. Scale length . . .

Oddly, while I've longed for a more recent-ish F40 since the Tacoma years, it's that '87 Westerly guitar that I'm drawn to. That's a great Westerly era too.

And while I also like a nice, light acoustic, there's a lot to be said for the projection/sustain of an arched back.

Brad Little · Jan 21, 2022

I had an F40 with the D-Tar from about the same era (IIRC) and it was a well made and nice sounding guitar, but I wasn't playing it as much as my other guitars, so traded it for an 8 string reso from Elderly. FWIW, Elderly sold it for $1500 or $1600, so the ~ $1300 looks like a good price, but can only wonder what the shipping from France would add.

Aecon13 · Jan 21, 2022

I do have a couple 25.5" scale Guild archbacks, but ive never owned a 24.75" scale, or a Maple body. I need feedback on weather or those factors would be a positive or negative coupled with my playstyle?

mavuser · Jan 21, 2022

maple acoustics are bright and loud! the closest of all acoustics to an electric type sound, to my ears. for *heavy strumming and rythm, that could possibly sound a bit on the bright side. a slightly lighter touch though would really make them sing.
however, if you are not comforable with a dread, i'm not so sure about the GF-25/30/50/55/60...which I would otherwise recommend.

my short answer to the very common question that you asked, for me is easy- it sounds like u need a short scale F-30 (some are long scale). that is definitely my advice.

Guildedagain · Jan 21, 2022

Good point of the scale.

The early and much harder to find Hoboken guitars are shorter scale, and all of the later ones are regular scale. Longer scale means more overtones, brighter, livelier with a touch more tension. Short scale guitars are easier to play but probably don't handle hard strumming as well, probably gets muddier than a regular scale, but great for single note work and usually better bass because the lack of overtones means a stronger fundamental note.

To me, F30 = easy to find and afford.

F40 on up, a little bit more of the same for a lot more money. I'd love to have a '74 F47 I like the model and and the numbers, but I have an F30 and it's good enough. All of the extra finery on the F47 F48 just means a lot more money, a bit more weight, and a value that means you have to watch over it like a hawk, which is not for me.

I'd much rather accidentally bang the top of the guitar into the edge of the kitchen table on a modestly priced guitar than one that costs thousands, then it's not just guilt, it's economics.

The more expensive the guitar, the more expensive the boo boos are.

plaidseason · Jan 21, 2022

One other thing that occurred to me . . .

I find my flat-back F44 much more comfortable to play than a dreadnought, which is part of why I'd argue that a mini-jumbo is the perfect all-around acoustic. But I've never played an arched back min-jumbo and I suspect that might alter things a little bit. Someone else will have to chime in on that.

mavuser · Jan 21, 2022

Guildedagain said:
Good point of the scale.

The early and much harder to find Hoboken guitars are shorter scale, and all of the later ones are regular scale. Longer scale means more overtones, brighter, livelier with a touch more tension. Short scale guitars are easier to play but probably don't handle hard strumming as well, probably gets muddier than a regular scale, but great for single note work and usually better bass because the lack of overtones means a stronger fundamental note.

plenty of late model F-30s are short scale, and handle hard strumming just fine! try one from the late 90's!

Aecon13 · Jan 21, 2022

mavuser said:
plenty of late model F-30s are short scale, and handle hard strumming just fine! try one from the late 90's!

In all truth though, I imagine most guitars handle strumming just fine. Thats not what im concerned about. I have arched-back Guild OM, and it does handle strumming just fine. Im looking to add an acoustic that is truly dedigned to handle heavy strumming at a high level. If i'm going to spend the money, I want the fit to be really strong. I worry a bit that the F-30 would not be much of a sound upgrade from my OM.

On one hand, I really like the F-45ce for the thinner neck and shorter scale, as it sounds like it will for my body/smaller frame better, but the 25.5" F-40 sounds like it will be the more logical fit for my play style. So I think thats what my decison ultimately comes does to.

Do I go with the upgraded version of what im already familiar with, in the 25.5" Hog bodied, F-40, or do I take the chance on something that would be completely new to me in the 24.75" Maple bodied, F45ce?

plaidseason · Jan 21, 2022

Aecon13 said:
In all truth though, I imagine most guitars handle strumming just fine. Thats not what im concerned about. I have arched-back Guild OM, and it does handle strumming just fine. Im looking to add an acoustic that is truly dedigned to handle heavy strumming at a high level. If i'm going to spend the money, I want the fit to be really strong. I worry a bit that the F-30 would not be much of a sound upgrade from my OM.

On one hand, I really like the F-45ce for the thinner neck and shorter scale, as it sounds like it will for my body/smaller frame better, but the 25.5" F-40 sounds like it will be the more logical fit for my play style. So I think thats what my decison ultimately comes does to.

Do I go with the upgraded version of what im already familiar with, in the 25.5" Hog bodied, F-40, or do I take the chance on something that would be completely new to me in the 24.75" Maple bodied, F45ce?

I only half agree about the strumming thing. A Gibson J45 is a short scale and people seem to like those.

I own both short scale and long scale guitars and honestly, it mostly depends on my mood and/or song vibe as which scale length feels and works better.

I love the the sustain and projection of my long scale DCE1 with the arched back, and the sustain, and different projection of my long scale F44. But sometimes It's the more Gibsonish sound of my short scale Simon & Patrick that I'm after.

I used to think I hated short scale. Then I started to think I only liked short scale. Now . . . I really have no idea.

As I mentioned somewhere else this, I like a guitar if it offers something that my other guitars do not.

mavuser · Jan 21, 2022

Aecon13 said:
Do I go with the upgraded version of what im already familiar with, in the 25.5" Hog bodied, F-40, or do I take the chance on something that would be completely new to me in the 24.75" Maple bodied, F45ce?

the Maple F-45ce I would think is more of a lead type of acoustic electric, especially the 24-fret version. but that does not mean you couldn't play rythm on it. It is hard to say for any of us without trying one. There is a mahogany versoin of that guitar- the F-15ce, that you may want to consider. For the heavy strumming from what you have posted thus far, I would lean towards mahogany. if you told us D-30 or F-50 would work for u then I would say go for those maples but heavy rythm playing on some of the smaller maple stuff I think will sound very bright.

have to say I am fascinated that u posted a mahogany F-40. I thought those were all maple? I see that one is located in France also. there is other stuff out there also if you are not in such a hurry. those do look nice though

plaidseason · Jan 21, 2022

mavuser said:
the Maple F-45ce I would think is more of a lead type of acoustic electric, especially the 24-fret version. but that does not mean you couldn't play rythm on it. It is hard to say for any of us without trying one. There is a mahogany versoin of that guitar- the F-15ce, that you may want to consider. For the heavy strumming from what you have posted thus far, I would lean towards mahogany. if you told us D-30 or F-50 would work for u then I would say go for those maples but heavy rythm playing on some of the smaller maple stuff I think will sound very bright.

have to say I am fascinated that u posted a mahogany F-40. I thought those were all maple? I see that one is located in France also. there is other stuff out there also if you are not in such a hurry. those do look nice though

The Tacoma and New Hartford F40s were mostly mahogany.

Not to through a wrench in the works. But one thing to consider about the F45-ce is that the neck meeting the body at the 15th fret means that the bridge is a little closer to the neck block and that probably affects bass response at least a teeny bit. That's why a 12 fret parlor can seem so much bigger than it is - the bridge is farther toward the end pin.

Guildedagain · Jan 22, 2022

24.75" scale is not "short scale" it is Gibson scale. Apparently the "short scale" F30 from the 90's clocks in at 24 7/8", slightly longer than Gibson scale. It is shorter than Guild usual 25.5" scale length, but not actually a "short scale" guitar, just slightly shorter than norm.

Personally, I don't like switching all the time, it doesn't do anything for my accuracy moving around the board.

mavuser · Jan 22, 2022

Guildedagain said:
24.75" scale is not "short scale" it is Gibson scale. Apparently the "short scale" F30 from the 90's clocks in at 24 7/8", slightly longer than Gibson scale. It is shorter than Guild usual 25.5" scale length, but not actually a "short scale" guitar, just slightly shorter than norm.

you do realize how many people in the world have access to the internet, and are able to read this post, yes?

davismanLV · Jan 22, 2022

mavuser said:
you do realize how many people in the world have access to the internet, and are able to read this post, yes?

Exactly! And the difference between short and long is rather miniscule when considered over the length of the scale. Usually less than an inch.

Advice on picking a Grand Orchestra

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